Will Hector come after Public Sector Contractors

[LondonManc]

I think there is a lot in taxation being based on rights (and in my view risk). This allows people like us to accept the risk and forfeit the rights and it allows your Uber people to argue for rights.

Interesting of course that Gov want to say we are under the SDC yet get no rights, despite the Uber case citing SDC means they should have rights.

That's the main point of my previous comment. If the courts have said SDC means rights, there's going to be a mandate across firms to make sure that working practices demonstrate no SDC wherever possible to prevent rights being applicable, surely?

[MrMarkyMark]

That's the main point of my previous comment. If the courts have said SDC means rights, there's going to be a mandate across firms to make sure that working practices demonstrate no SDC wherever possible to prevent rights being applicable, surely?

Bob spuds post top of the page, below, is of particular interest when considering this:-

http://forums.contractoruk.com/futur...unched-56.html

[youngguy]

That's the main point of my previous comment. If the courts have said SDC means rights, there's going to be a mandate across firms to make sure that working practices demonstrate no SDC wherever possible to prevent rights being applicable, surely?

Yep, I'm there with you.

Uber is great timing actually and IPSE should be all over it (to be fair I think they keeping an eye on it)

[LondonManc]

Bob spuds post top of the page, below, is of particular interest when considering this:-

http://forums.contractoruk.com/futur...unched-56.html

Yes, I remember reading that. Please help - is it Hector's arse or Hector's elbow? Hector doesn't know.

[eek]

So the Uber ruling could potentially mean a massive IR35 rethink?

Excellent. Perhaps they'll use a rights and privileges test to demonstrate IR35 - holiday, sickness, right of union representation, etc.

Not quite HMRC won't think that far ahead all they see is money. Unless someone is clever enough to read this.

What I expect to see if the IR35 changes are implemented will not be people appealing the IR35 ruling rather there will be (with union support at least) a number of employment tribunals to try and create a hard rule that SDC = employment rights.

Then we get the cruel but really funny bit. Having established employment rights the unions will ask why do you have contractors with employment rights being paid £60k a year when you have employees being paid £30k a year. Based on the equal pay act going back to the 80s you need to give those workers on £30k a massive pay rise.

So at the moment I actually want the IR35 psc changes to go ahead in the autumn statement. As the uber decision were it to be upheld (and it will be) has just destroyed the IR35 argument once and for all.

Meanwhile I'll wait for malvolio and others to say but but but.

[eek]

Yes, I remember reading that. Please help - is it Hector's arse or Hector's elbow? Hector doesn't know.

See my note above. We will get back pay, the employees get very, very large cheques based on equal pay rules.

I really hope HMRC are reading this, it's your move and I think every option is checkmate the contractor

[LondonManc]

See my note above. We will get back pay, the employees get very, very large cheques based on equal pay rules.

I really hope HMRC are reading this, it's your move and I think every option is checkmate the contractor

The only move HMRC have got to bring more tax in via the over-arching "tax on work" banner is to make sure that government contracts go to British contractors and companies rather than being outsourced and offshored to Wipro, Infosys, etc. When you see the likes of SussexSeagull out for so long, yet some of the cheap carp that you meet in work, it's clearly a case that the race to the bottom is alive and well.

[youngguy]

Not quite HMRC won't think that far ahead all they see is money. Unless someone is clever enough to read this.

What I expect to see if the IR35 changes are implemented will not be people appealing the IR35 ruling rather there will be (with union support at least) a number of employment tribunals to try and create a hard rule that SDC = employment rights.

Then we get the cruel but really funny bit. Having established employment rights the unions will ask why do you have contractors with employment rights being paid £60k a year when you have employees being paid £30k a year. Based on the equal pay act going back to the 80s you need to give those workers on £30k a massive pay rise.

So at the moment I actually want the IR35 psc changes to go ahead in the autumn statement. As the uber decision were it to be upheld (and it will be) has just destroyed the IR35 argument once and for all.

Meanwhile I'll wait for malvolio and others to say but but but.

This is why I talk about rights and risk. I may be sat next to an employee and seemingly doing the same role but my risk is that of a business (insurances, contract that says you can bin me at a moment's notice). No employee has that.

On the SDC point, has Gov actually explained/justified their rationale on how PSCs can be disguised employees , yet be taxed as a business AND employee and all without employee rights?

[eek]

The only move HMRC have got to bring more tax in via the over-arching "tax on work" banner is to make sure that government contracts go to British contractors and companies rather than being outsourced and offshored to Wipro, Infosys, etc. When you see the likes of SussexSeagull out for so long, yet some of the cheap carp that you meet in work, it's clearly a case that the race to the bottom is alive and well.

That argument doesn't wash for these psc IR35 changes - you have to have the right to work independently in the U.K. for this change to impact you so wipro and tcs aren't impacted except for a slight chance of getting work which otherwise is way behind schedule

[malvolio]

...
On the SDC point, has Gov actually explained/justified their rationale on how PSCs can be disguised employees , yet be taxed as a business AND employee and all without employee rights?

Ermm, no, you are either taxed as an employee under IR35 or as a business if outside. The issue of employer NICs hasn't really been addressed yet but existing umbrella/agency contracts allow for that so it may simply use the same idea.

And because your status is determined by employee-related conditions of engagement, it does not mean and never has meant that you are an employee in fact.