Public sector IR35 consultation launched

[bobspud]

That doesn't talk about PSCs though does it?

I thought it outlined the different framework options and implied that cl one would almost certainly be caught by the new rules ....but that doesn't mean a PSC via DoS (or G cloud) is not caught by defacto? I haven't seen anything that shoes a direct relationship between the procurement framework and the new rules.

Take a look at the last link in the post above yours...

[youngguy]

Yeah but they've taken steps to close that down and put all contingent resourcing through other channels. People shouldn't be using GCloud for this type of resourcing anymore. I am sure it's not watertight but you might as well discount it for now. Unless you mean PSC via a consultancy offering GCloud services which is what we've been discussing recently.

Totally agree. The point I am also trying to make is that being on DoS (if you managed to ) does not make you safe just because you are not on CL one, which I think is what Bob eluded to

[youngguy]

Take a look at the last link in the post above yours...

Thanks , what bit am I looking at? (Not being sarcastic!)

[bobspud]

Thanks , what bit am I looking at? (Not being sarcastic!)

The first few pages discuss non-outcome and outcome based work.

with the kicker at the bottom

"If the department hirer is responsible for the work done, then the role is classified as Contingent Labour."

[nucastle]

I ended up being called twice on two consecutive days AFTER i left my DWP gig by some internal DWP department to quiz me about the nature of my engagement, time sheeting and sign off etc etc. The first time I got rather concerned as I thought it was compliance related.

The second day they called, I pushed a little harder and was happy with what they were saying, which is it seems they don't have the foggiest what is going on, and they are trying to reign things in quickly.

In any case, I've not got three prospective jobs I'm being put forward for for the Home Office, HMRC (lol) and now the ONS in Cardiff for which each agent after being quizzed by me specifically about the framework this is being recruited under, has in 2/3 cases confirmed that this is now a specific work package under a none CL1 framework. They seem to know what is up at the moment. The ONS one they are offering to PAY for me to come and do a technical test. Crazy times.

I can't believe I'm actually entertaining these calls, but the rates are so stupidly high at the moment that the IR35 caught rate is higher than what I was on before after a standard Ltd company takehome rate. Then again that WAS on CL1 so I did the right thing walking away from that imho.

[youngguy]

The first few pages discuss non-outcome and outcome based work.

with the kicker at the bottom

"If the department hirer is responsible for the work done, then the role is classified as Contingent Labour."

Thanks. I thought (perhaps incorrectly) you were saying the other frameworks were therefore "safe" ? I still think the PSC decision tree would apply would it not?

[bobspud]

Thanks. I thought (perhaps incorrectly) you were saying the other frameworks were therefore "safe" ? I still think the PSC decision tree would apply would it not?

Yes the other frameworks are safe but not because the government won't look at the IR35 issue. Rather because you are likely to own the outcome and be solely responsible for its delivery.

[youngguy]

Yes the other frameworks are safe but not because the government won't look at the IR35 issue. Rather because you are likely to own the outcome and be solely responsible for its delivery.

But as Greenfields said, that won't make you exempt from the digital tool, so we can't say for sure any frameworks are safe

[youngguy]

I ended up being called twice on two consecutive days AFTER i left my DWP gig by some internal DWP department to quiz me about the nature of my engagement, time sheeting and sign off etc etc. The first time I got rather concerned as I thought it was compliance related.

The second day they called, I pushed a little harder and was happy with what they were saying, which is it seems they don't have the foggiest what is going on, and they are trying to reign things in quickly.

In any case, I've not got three prospective jobs I'm being put forward for for the Home Office, HMRC (lol) and now the ONS in Cardiff for which each agent after being quizzed by me specifically about the framework this is being recruited under, has in 2/3 cases confirmed that this is now a specific work package under a none CL1 framework. They seem to know what is up at the moment. The ONS one they are offering to PAY for me to come and do a technical test. Crazy times.

I can't believe I'm actually entertaining these calls, but the rates are so stupidly high at the moment that the IR35 caught rate is higher than what I was on before after a standard Ltd company takehome rate. Then again that WAS on CL1 so I did the right thing walking away from that imho.

I'd say two things though
1) agents will say anything to get you to sign. I've heard all sorts but no one knows until at least Nov 23.
2) don't forget the paye bit.

[DaveB]

I ended up being called twice on two consecutive days AFTER i left my DWP gig by some internal DWP department to quiz me about the nature of my engagement, time sheeting and sign off etc etc. The first time I got rather concerned as I thought it was compliance related.

The second day they called, I pushed a little harder and was happy with what they were saying, which is it seems they don't have the foggiest what is going on, and they are trying to reign things in quickly.

In any case, I've not got three prospective jobs I'm being put forward for for the Home Office, HMRC (lol) and now the ONS in Cardiff for which each agent after being quizzed by me specifically about the framework this is being recruited under, has in 2/3 cases confirmed that this is now a specific work package under a none CL1 framework. They seem to know what is up at the moment. The ONS one they are offering to PAY for me to come and do a technical test. Crazy times.

I can't believe I'm actually entertaining these calls, but the rates are so stupidly high at the moment that the IR35 caught rate is higher than what I was on before after a standard Ltd company takehome rate. Then again that WAS on CL1 so I did the right thing walking away from that imho.

ONS don't recruit through Capita anyway and they don't use the CLone framework, or they didn't when I was there a little while back.