Public sector IR35 consultation launched

[malvolio]

Are you kidding? I've asked IPSE directly on here and had no answers. In my experience if someone is unable /unwilling to tell you what they have been doing....it usually means the answer is very little .

They didn't do anything - didn't rally the troops - and now the decision has already been made. Even if they presented good argument to Gov now, Gov would be less inclined to listen due to having to do a u turn and lose face.

I've been a member for 10 yrs and won't be renewing. I don't blame IPSE for losing the fight but I do blame them for not having the fight.

Are you really expecting them - or any other similar organisation - to disclose policy issues on an open forum? How about asking them directly?

And you're wrong anyway, but hey...

[IPSE]

Are you kidding? I've asked IPSE directly on here and had no answers.

In fairness to us, you have had answers - you just weren't happy with them. As explained previously we will not expose detailed plans/responses on a public forum.

[DotasScandal]

That's IPSE and every other serious body with even a vague interest, such as ICAEW, the IR35 Forum, and many other trade bodies and consultancies

What would be good would be if all these eminent bodies learned from past experience, from a change? This is an EXACT replay of the APN consultation of 2014. Please look at the list of respondents: it reads like a who's who of the accounting, law, and consulting profession. All those people got pissed on by Gauke and HMRC. Did they say anything?
Not that I have heard. In this situation, it would be surprising to assume HMRC not to use the exact same protocol in every instance. Fool me once...etc.

If the people raising the consultation don't listen to the answers, just what do you expect anyone to do about it? Apart from us whinging form the sidelines of course...

As individuals, we cannot do too much. But the aforementioned bodies SHOULD raise their voice and stop accepting the BS - otherwise it will NEVER stop.

[missinggreenfields]

As individuals, we cannot do too much.

Don't let eek hear you say that - his website saved the day for T&S!

[mudskipper]

Are you kidding? I've asked IPSE directly on here and had no answers. In my experience if someone is unable /unwilling to tell you what they have been doing....it usually means the answer is very little .

They didn't do anything - didn't rally the troops - and now the decision has already been made. Even if they presented good argument to Gov now, Gov would be less inclined to listen due to having to do a u turn and lose face.

I've been a member for 10 yrs and won't be renewing. I don't blame IPSE for losing the fight but I do blame them for not having the fight.

The arguments that IPSE will make against the proposal are unlikely to be much different to the arguments you or I would make - the difference is that IPSE can and will back their arguments with credible, well researched evidence, and if anything is going to result in a rethink it is this, rather than shouting.

[DotasScandal]

Don't let eek hear you say that - his website saved the day for T&S!

Don't get me wrong. I believe in individual action and guerilla tactics (in case you don't know, Dotas Scandal is also a website).
But real strength is in numbers, that's why we're also endorsing Big Group.

[youngguy]

Are you really expecting them - or any other similar organisation - to disclose policy issues on an open forum? How about asking them directly?

And you're wrong anyway, but hey...

I have....no answer

Easy to say without providing evidence

[eek]

I'm currently in the PS with an October contract expiry, and this news has more or less sealed the deal for me to jump ship.

A number of my colleagues aren't so convinced of the doom and gloom and equate the losses to them, being anywhere between 13% worst case (fully caught by IR35 and pay the tax) and 0% on the basis that rates are suddenly going to rise so that the net effect to the contractor is zero - this assumes that Capita and the agency/agencies in the middle reduce their margin, or rates go up to the government etc etc. We are talking people currently earning between 400-600 a day here.

I've looked at the online IR35 calculators and they quote a loss per month of anywhere between 2500 and 5000 a month based on the above daily rate if caught inside IR35, but the general feeling amongst my colleagues is that the current calculators do not apply to how the rules will actually be applied come next April - is this right?

The calculators may not be 100% accurate but as a rough estimate they will be correct.

My advice even if you think rates will rise is that you need to leave. Rates will only increase if supply disappears and if you are happily sat at a desk in HMRC or dwp (taking a wild guess from your username) HMRC / dwp won't need to increase the rare for your job

[youngguy]

In fairness to us, you have had answers - you just weren't happy with them. As explained previously we will not expose detailed plans/responses on a public forum.

I asked why the secrecy - you did not answer.

I asked what I could be doing - you did not answer.

I asked why there were no updates on your site - you did not answer .

I asked if you planned to do/say anything post the meeting minutes saying this was a done deal......no answer for that either I suspect ?

[youngguy]

The arguments that IPSE will make against the proposal are unlikely to be much different to the arguments you or I would make - the difference is that IPSE can and will back their arguments with credible, well researched evidence, and if anything is going to result in a rethink it is this, rather than shouting.

But IPSE have been the least vocal (publicly ) of all groups and if these discussions are happening with hind closed doors what pressure will hmrc feel?

Name me one other campaign which has been silent until the end and actually worked !