Tracing file sharers

[DaveB]

What would happen if everyone (i.e. a large number of people) used something like Tor. Then we'd all be proxies... (sorry if it's a dumb question).

They'd go for the people who's IP's showed up. They will go on the net and look for torrents and other downloads being made available. They'll grab a few files, check they are copyrighted or not and then go after the person who's IP they go them from. Doesnt matter if you were acting as a proxy for someone else, unless you kept logs and hand them over to prove it wasn;t you, you will be assumed to be the guilty party.

[NotAllThere]

Ok. Fortunately I live in a country where (at the moment) we have a certain amount of freedom.

[doodab]

Ok. Fortunately I live in a country where (at the moment) we have a certain amount of freedom.

I'm not sure that a law that's easy to break and difficult to enforce is quite the same thing as freedom. Cconsidered as such, I'm free to commit murder. Which I suppose I am, if I am willing to face to consequences.

[NotAllThere]

In Switzerland it is legal to download illegal copies. Hosting the copies, or making them is not legal. I'm not particular concerned about protecting hosters or copiers. What I am concerned about is the erosion of our civil liberties caused by the efforts of inept legislators to manage "piracy".

fwiw, I don't download illegal stuff. ( I probably have the only licensed copy of winzip in the world ).

[doodab]

I'd agree the attempts to tackle the issue so far have been heavy handed, but It's not clear to me that civil liberties are being eroded.

On the one hand, file sharers are ignoring and attempting to erode the rights of copyright holders, who in turn are simply defending their existing rights.

On the other hand, people are concerned about an erosion of the right to privacy. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance and all that, and we need to subject any regulations to scrutiny.

Ultimately the legislation being put forward needs to bring the internet in line with other communications mediums (and the real world), and that does mean an end to absolute freedom to do whatever we choose with total anonymity.

Anonymity is not the same thing as privacy, and it's never been a civil right as far as I am aware, but a lot of people don't seem to perceive the difference.

[centurian]

So, if I swear on oath that I had done factory reset on the router and simply forgotten to switch the security back on, how could that be challenged by probability? Serious question, BTW.

On the basis that you are lying - and they need to show it is more of a possibility than not. They could show that if you are an IT expert, it would be quite unlikely that you would make such a mistake.

Whether they would be bothered to do this is another matter.

But the important point to remember is the "proof beyond reasonable doubt" applies to criminal cases.

If civil cases, it's not uncommon for the judge to look you in the eye, come to the conclusion you are a lying scroat and find against you.

[Fred Bloggs]

Thanks, I'm a dumb engineer not an IT expert and I have teenage kids at home. I'm not in the habit of downloading torrents but I can easily foresee a situation where the kids could reset the router without me knowing. That would be my defence!

[threaded]

Thanks, I'm a dumb engineer not an IT expert and I have teenage kids at home. I'm not in the habit of downloading torrents but I can easily foresee a situation where the kids could reset the router without me knowing. That would be my defence!

It's not a defence.

HTH

[Incognito]

They'd go for the people who's IP's showed up. They will go on the net and look for torrents and other downloads being made available. They'll grab a few files, check they are copyrighted or not and then go after the person who's IP they go them from. Doesnt matter if you were acting as a proxy for someone else, unless you kept logs and hand them over to prove it wasn;t you, you will be assumed to be the guilty party.

You don't understand how TOR works. It's an 'Onion routing' network. You become one part in a link of relays and you have no idea what is travelling through your part of the chain. Plausible deniability. As long as you can prove that you have not downloaded the item in question (and that's as simple as providing mobile phone records showing you weren't at home or getting any IT professional to compile a report for you).

The worst that could happen is that you somehow breach your ISP's T&C's somehow.

However, at the moment it isn't practical or appreciated by the community to run any form of p2p through TOR. You drag the network to a grinding halt.

It's not a defence.

HTH

It most certainly is. If a hacker came and breached your network and proceeded to do nasty things, it may make your life hell for a period whilst you proved it was not you, but you certainly will not be liable for any of their actions. That includes running broadband without encryption. You point me to a single statue that dictates you will run WPA2 on your wireless router.