Reply to: Salary sacrifice time delay

[Protagoras]

I realise those who think an umbrella only has one contractor working for them will question why that would take more than a few minutes, but most umbrellas have a few contractors, all with their own special set of circumstances.

Given the fees charged by umbrella companies, they probably need hundreds of 'employees' to be able to cover costs. Even where these 'employees' have differing levels of pension subscription and providers, once setup this should be the bread and butter of the payroll software umbrella companies use.

In business any party delaying payment of a supplier after being paid by a client is benefiting from holding the funds in the interim.

Part of the problem with this client-agent-umbrella-employee supply chain is the credit line.

Frankly, work like an employee should equate to being paid like an employee; really a party providing an 'inside' determination should be required to pay all workers on the same schedule as its direct employees.

Umbrella workers should not be required to provide business supply chains with personal credit.

[eek]

The 19th or 22nd of the month is not >40 days after the payment hits your personal bank account, is it?
"Therefore" you must be mistaken on when you are getting paid.
You seem to be jumping from one argument to another, perhaps implying they are linked, but without stepping back.

Work March, umbrella receives money in April, paid into pension on Xth May. I can see where the idea of 40 days come from

[WTFH]

Therefore why does it need to delay >40 days to make the salary sacrifice payment into my pension provider?

The 19th or 22nd of the month is not >40 days after the payment hits your personal bank account, is it?
"Therefore" you must be mistaken on when you are getting paid.
You seem to be jumping from one argument to another, perhaps implying they are linked, but without stepping back.

[GreenLantern22]

And to add to that, each month has to be calculated, unlike in permidom where your annual salary is agreed, and then all monthly payments/deductions/SalSac are calculated as 1/12th of the annual figure, they don't change from one month to the next.

I realise those who think an umbrella only has one contractor working for them will question why that would take more than a few minutes, but most umbrellas have a few contractors, all with their own special set of circumstances.

Forgive my ignorance if this is not correct but what has the "calculation" got to do with delaying the payment of the salary sacrifice amount? In my case PayStream knows already the amount since the payment slip has been produced. PayStream has also been fully paid by the agency. Therefore why does it need to delay >40 days to make the salary sacrifice payment into my pension provider?

[eek]

I understood that they still did - is that no longer the case?

I know how they worked when I worked through them but having been outside for the past 2 years I haven’t needed to worry about such things

[Protagoras]

Clarity used to work that way -

I understood that they still did - is that no longer the case?

[WTFH]

Clarity used to work that way - it’s very much a question of how and who handles processes. Larger umbrellas will have tasks set out so 1 set of people do payments, 1 do expense approval another do pension payments

And to add to that, each month has to be calculated, unlike in permidom where your annual salary is agreed, and then all monthly payments/deductions/SalSac are calculated as 1/12th of the annual figure, they don't change from one month to the next.

I realise those who think an umbrella only has one contractor working for them will question why that would take more than a few minutes, but most umbrellas have a few contractors, all with their own special set of circumstances.

[eek]

And what Umbrella Company was that?

Clarity used to work that way - it’s very much a question of how and who handles processes. Larger umbrellas will have tasks set out so 1 set of people do payments, 1 do expense approval another do pension payments

[GreenLantern22]

In practice, there's no need for any delay to SalSac pension payments made by an umbrella company.

The reason I know this is simple; the umbrella company I used paid over the funds to my SIPP the same day that I was paid.

And what Umbrella Company was that?

[Protagoras]

In practice, there's no need for any delay to SalSac pension payments made by an umbrella company.

The reason I know this is simple; the umbrella company I used paid over the funds to my SIPP the same day that I was paid.

[GreenLantern22]

And besides this defines the "Prescribed time in which an employer must make payments to trustees or managers". It's a target to aim for, not a max speed to reach. It's maximum date they should make the payment by. On my previous permie job I was being paid on the 18th and the money reached the pension on 3rd of the following month, 15 after which is much more reasonable.

[GreenLantern22]

If you read the cited legislation, specifically 'regulations 16(2) and 21 of the Occupational Pension Schemes (Scheme Administration) Regulations 1996' in note 1. It's more clearly stated that both the 19th and 22nd refer to the following month:[/LIST]https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1715

Ummm you are right. But makes no sense. Why would electronic payments be allowed to be done later?

[fulcon]

"Employee contributions are deducted from scheme members’ pay. Unless the scheme rules or regulations set out a shorter period, those contributions must be paid to the scheme by day 19 of the following month, or day 22 if paid electronically1."

This means that if they pay by cheque (highly unlikely but they could be doing it to keep the cash and earn interest) they are OK to pay 19th of the following month. But if they are paying electronically it should be day 22nd of the month they are deducted.

If you read the cited legislation, specifically 'regulations 16(2) and 21 of the Occupational Pension Schemes (Scheme Administration) Regulations 1996' in note 1. It's more clearly stated that both the 19th and 22nd refer to the following month:

• (a)where the contribution is paid to the trustees or managers of the scheme by means of electronic communication, on the 22nd day of the month following the last day of the relevant period; or
• (b)in any other case, on the 19th day of the month following the last day of the relevant period.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/1715

[GreenLantern22]

Currently with PayStream and also suffering from this issue for some months. I asked around and it seems this is breaching the Pensions Regulator rules:

https://www.thepensionsregulator.gov...-contributions

"Employee contributions are deducted from scheme members’ pay. Unless the scheme rules or regulations set out a shorter period, those contributions must be paid to the scheme by day 19 of the following month, or day 22 if paid electronically1."

This means that if they pay by cheque (highly unlikely but they could be doing it to keep the cash and earn interest) they are OK to pay 19th of the following month. But if they are paying electronically it should be day 22nd of the month they are deducted. I used to have salary sacrifice on my previous permie job and I always go my pension contributions on the 20th so this confirms that they were following the rules. Contact your pension provider and ask them how did your funds got paid. Then ask your umbrella company how they pay your funds, if they do it electronically it has to be done by the 22nd.

[Nazaire99]

I am currently with Brookson who overall have provided excellent service. However, I am swapping to Giant* specifically and only because of delays in salary sacrifice hitting my pension.

Brookson run a rolling 4 week payment period and, by law they have to pay the pension contributions I believe within 22 days from the end of this period. Because the payment period is not fixed to the end of the month, when I typically get paid, if they receive funds from my agency a day after the last period ends, I have to wait the 4 weeks of the new payment period plus the 22 days for the pension to hit my account.

As I've said the service I've received has been excellent, but this tax year I'm taking advantage of carry forward of unused contributions from previous years, so my pension payments are much larger than my net salary (which Brookson pay on receipt of funds). Due to vagaries of the payment cycle, since I increased my pension payments some pension payments have taken nearly 2 months from receipt of funds to hit my pension. Essentially I have up to 4 months credit exposure (I'm paid a month in arrears) to my agency and Brookson - so much for being a deemed employee because I don't take financial risk - its higher than when I worked Ltd!!

Another factor to take into account is that the pension company record the payments upon receipt, which given the large delay means that pension payments from monies earnt and paid as salary in one tax year will appear in the next one, which may have tax implications (e.g. loss of carry forward).

*I only have a choice of 3 umbrellas through my agent - Brookson, Giant and another who do not offer salary sacrifice. This is another problem, which I believe is a fundamental problem with the umbrella sector, which is essentially unregulated. Because there are so many cowboys firms out there and agencies have limited bandwidth, they can only vet a limited number of firms - hence the limited choice. As a further point I think it is fundamentally unjust being forced to work through companies that are not regulated.