Reply to: DOTAS and Umbrella companies stating schemes not DOTAS

[LisaContractorUmbrella]

i am not on one of these schemes, niether am i trolling.
i simply am very tempted by the scheme as i said it i know a couple of people who have been on the schemes for a number of years with no issues.

all i want to get some clarification on is how are such schemes non-DOTAS. to the layman like myself i do not know if EBT/CBT schemes should be DOTAS or not. I am trying to get a balanced/factual view from people who know about these things

yes i understand that there is a risk but surely it cant be all doom and gloom as there are som many of these umbrellas about, they all cant be wrong

There are lots of people who post on here who used tax avoidance schemes for years with no issues - they now have big issues - the sort of issues which result in them losing their homes and breaking up their marriages. HMRC do not play nicely and, now they've introduced APN's, they only have to think that you've underpaid tax and you will be in for a whole world of pain.

A CBT is a Contractor Benefit Trust which is an EBT under another name. An EBT is a legitimate process, as has been held up by the Courts in the Rangers case, however, where contractors are concerned, an EBT is used for no purpose other than to avoid tax and will therefore be viewed as a scam arrangement by HMRC. The fact that they have not applied for a DOTAS number doesn't mean that they are not operating a tax avoidance scheme and provides you with no level of protection at all

[cojak]

Sorry Cojak

Yes, I'm ashamed to say its true, I don't really have magic beans

[TykeMerc]

Sorry Cojak

Yes, I'm ashamed to say its true, I don't really have magic beans

They're actually magic peas?

[slatt]

FOR THE ATTENTION OF THE DIM : THESE POSTS ARE JOKING!

We've had at least one dimwit who accused us of encouraging the use of these rubbish schemes because he thought irony was something to get the creases out of shirties...

Sorry Cojak

Yes, I'm ashamed to say its true, I don't really have magic beans

[cojak]

Don't listen to the guys on here telling you to not go for it, they just simply don't know what they're talking about!

I reckon they're just jealous that you've found a scheme that really works and they wish they could be as cunning and intelligent as you.

But whatever you do, don't even think about going into the HMRC Scheme Inquiries page (I'll give you the link here, just to make sure you don't accidentally go in HMRC Scheme Enquiries), as its full of moaning whingers who obviously didn't do the painstaking, exhaustive research you've done.

I say go for it, fill your boots!

As an aside, I've got a few magic beans I'm selling, if you're interested let me know, I'm sure we can come to a mutually beneficial arrangement.

FOR THE ATTENTION OF THE DIM : THESE POSTS ARE JOKING!

We've had at least one dimwit who accused us of encouraging the use of these rubbish schemes because he thought irony was something to get the creases out of shirties...

[Contreras]

Surely its may like filling your tank with fuel and driving off without paying..

The police may not call immediately but they will....

Gosh eek, genius!
Don't worry about the police. Me and the pump attendant have a deal - he assures me it's legit.

[slatt]

Actually now I've thought it through, fill your boots, sign up to the scheme you fancy make sure you ram as much business through it as possible

See? Even TM is saying you should go for it, that's corroboration if ever I've heard it!

Now, about those beans....

[slatt]

yes i understand that there is a risk but surely it cant be all doom and gloom as there are som many of these umbrellas about, they all cant be wrong

Don't listen to the guys on here telling you to not go for it, they just simply don't know what they're talking about!

I reckon they're just jealous that you've found a scheme that really works and they wish they could be as cunning and intelligent as you.

But whatever you do, don't even think about going into the HMRC Scheme Inquiries page (I'll give you the link here, just to make sure you don't accidentally go in HMRC Scheme Enquiries), as its full of moaning whingers who obviously didn't do the painstaking, exhaustive research you've done.

I say go for it, fill your boots!

As an aside, I've got a few magic beans I'm selling, if you're interested let me know, I'm sure we can come to a mutually beneficial arrangement.

[TykeMerc]

i am not on one of these schemes, niether am i trolling.
i simply am very tempted by the scheme as i said it i know a couple of people who have been on the schemes for a number of years with no issues.

all i want to get some clarification on is how are such schemes non-DOTAS. to the layman like myself i do not know if EBT/CBT schemes should be DOTAS or not. I am trying to get a balanced/factual view from people who know about these things

yes i understand that there is a risk but surely it cant be all doom and gloom as there are som many of these umbrellas about, they all cant be wrong

Ok, now it's clear you're a troll.

If you're not then you really are incapable of rational thought and are totally blind.
ALL of the avoidance schemes are being targeted by HMRC, they don't work fast, but they are nasty and they are methodical, as you've been told before just because a few people you know aren't being molested without lube at the moment it doesn't mean that they won't be told to bend over at some point.

Actually now I've thought it through, fill your boots, sign up to the scheme you fancy make sure you ram as much business through it as possible, line the providers pockets with a percentage and yours with every penny of tax and NI you can avoid (or is it evade? Who cares really?), buy a few fast cars and blow the lot on high living.
Oh and don't forget to regale us all with tales of how the nasty man from HMRC decided not just to bend you over without the good manners to say please, but how he decided to use a baseball bat with rusty nails banged through it. That might be in a few months or a few years so you've got that to look forwards to.

[northernladuk]

i am not on one of these schemes, niether am i trolling.
i simply am very tempted by the scheme as i said it i know a couple of people who have been on the schemes for a number of years with no issues.

I've know a couple of people that have speeding for years as well and they've had not issues... It must be right then....

Do you know any of the people in all these threads that appear when I type in EBT and Bankrupt in to a search?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=DO...ntractoruk.com

You keep banging on about the same question when everyone is screaming walk away at you.. You've got to be trolling. No one is this stupid.

[Iliketax]

i am not on one of these schemes, niether am i trolling.
i simply am very tempted by the scheme as i said it i know a couple of people who have been on the schemes for a number of years with no issues.

all i want to get some clarification on is how are such schemes non-DOTAS. to the layman like myself i do not know if EBT/CBT schemes should be DOTAS or not. I am trying to get a balanced/factual view from people who know about these things

yes i understand that there is a risk but surely it cant be all doom and gloom as there are som many of these umbrellas about, they all cant be wrong

On 13 April you posted a link to virtuepay. This was a booklet on a dodgy tax avoidance scheme. It said that DOTAS did not apply. I said:

And what they have written about DOTAS is just bollocks. If you're interested look at the amendments made by SI 2595/2013.

Almost immediately after I posted that the link was taken down and I got a 404 error. Are you linked to them?

[smeg35]

i am not on one of these schemes, niether am i trolling.
i simply am very tempted by the scheme as i said it i know a couple of people who have been on the schemes for a number of years with no issues.

all i want to get some clarification on is how are such schemes non-DOTAS. to the layman like myself i do not know if EBT/CBT schemes should be DOTAS or not. I am trying to get a balanced/factual view from people who know about these things

yes i understand that there is a risk but surely it cant be all doom and gloom as there are som many of these umbrellas about, they all cant be wrong

[TykeMerc]

but if the scheme provider is telling me it is out of scope for dotas/GAAR is it not the scheme provider whois accountable as he has given me his expertise knowledge. I am an IT guy therefore dont get all this tax and legal mumbo jumbo.

the only concern i have is the scheme is a CBT which i presume is similar to an EBT and so would be in scope for dotas so i just dont get how they can send my return without a dotas reference

No, they're selling you a line, at best they can be described as your advisors, but frankly calling them that is unbelievably daft..

the truth is that the ONE person responsible for YOUR Tax and NI affairs is YOU.

You mention your only concern, but when you finally wake up you will realise that you have a vastly larger one, it is YOU that HMRC will target and you can expect the scheme providers to have run off laughing with their fat 15% of your contract fees.

Whatever happens you have been either amazingly thick signing up for a scheme or you're just a pathetic troll in which case what the hell are you doing in the professional forums?

[malvolio]

but if the scheme provider is telling me it is out of scope for dotas/GAAR is it not the scheme provider whois accountable as he has given me his expertise knowledge. I am an IT guy therefore dont get all this tax and legal mumbo jumbo.

the only concern i have is the scheme is a CBT which i presume is similar to an EBT and so would be in scope for dotas so i just dont get how they can send my return without a dotas reference

You've said it yourself. The balance between your earnings and the fees you pay and the minimum 20% tax rate in this country doesn't add up.

But the guys arranging this for you have said it's OK. so that's fine, what could possibly go wrong? Ever heard about the activities of bears in woods and the Pope's religious leanings? As for liability, whose tax is not being paid? Hint: it ain't the scheme providers...

You're either being very dim or are trolling. If the former, switch to a proper umbrella but be prepared or a tax bill to arrive sometime in the next few years. If the latter, you've been rumbled and you're not very good at it. Either way, stop doing what you're doing.

[smeg35]

but if the scheme provider is telling me it is out of scope for dotas/GAAR is it not the scheme provider whois accountable as he has given me his expertise knowledge. I am an IT guy therefore dont get all this tax and legal mumbo jumbo.

the only concern i have is the scheme is a CBT which i presume is similar to an EBT and so would be in scope for dotas so i just dont get how they can send my return without a dotas reference