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Previously on "What Jobs boards are now the main ones for contract roles"

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  • edison
    replied
    I see many more agents post details of gigs on LinkedIn compared to 12-18 months ago, especially for senior roles/higher paying gigs. You should definitely keep it on your radar.

    I had a recent trawl through the various job boards I used to look at and agree with some of the posters above that the main ones haven't really changed - Jobserve plus the stable of Total Jobs (CW Jobs, Jobsite etc.) One that I used to look at a lot and seems to have gone downhill is Indeed.

    Ultimately though, the number of applications for most jobs via these sites is getting so large that even if you're a brilliant candidate fit, you may struggle to get identified by the Applicant Tracking System keyword filter and land on the Recruiter's initial longlist of CVs. Continue to use them by all means but your best weapon these days is your network.

    Leave a comment:


  • DimPrawn
    replied
    Originally posted by simes View Post
    Which for the HMRC, sounds as though that there will be a net zero increase in tax revenues from your company's workforce...

    Am sure even this will be deemed an absolute success though.
    I would agree. Overall there will lower income and lower overall tax take. Some companies like mine will be pushing more to mostly Indian bodyshops, where the people are paid in India and just receive a minimum amount in the UK and live a very basic life here.

    But it will be declared an incredible success by HMRC in pursuit of "fairness".

    Leave a comment:


  • simes
    replied
    Which for the HMRC, sounds as though that there will be a net zero increase in tax revenues from your company's workforce...

    Am sure even this will be deemed an absolute success though.

    Leave a comment:


  • DimPrawn
    replied
    Originally posted by MojoDog View Post
    This.

    That's if you can get an interview. HR can have a tendency to view applications from erstwhile contractors with suspicion.
    Where I work as a permie (was a contractor, took perm offer when the IR35 reform thing was being pushed towards the private sector), all the contractors have now been forced perm or terminated. They are never taking on contractors again. Going back 10 years there were over 1000 IT contractors there, now there are exactly zero.

    All future IT work goes to InfoSys and some other niche consultancies doing body shopping.

    Perm roles are few and far between there in IT. They don't have a problem with ex-contractors being hired as permies though, because they see them leaving again for contracting as very unlikely now. Speaking to HR they think most people in the industry inside IR35 will take up permie roles eventually, and outside IR35 roles will dwindle and wither on the vine.

    Leave a comment:


  • MojoDog
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

    It's a massive jump to go permie, not that there will be many of them about either, and same numbers applying, so its no where near as simple as you think. You will always be there thinking that the one contract you need will pop up today, no need to go perm. I could be on the bench 6 months and still earn more than a perm as well so you'll ignore it for 4 or 5 months and when the realization hits perm is the way you've already spent the time on the bench.
    This.

    That's if you can get an interview. HR can have a tendency to view applications from erstwhile contractors with suspicion.

    Leave a comment:


  • voodoo1927
    replied
    Well this thread as cheered me up no end...
    As you are all walking out of contracting I was looking to get back in.
    For those of you looking for something else - that was me 5 plus years ago. I did my own thing, provided hosting services, sold software, offered seo work etc etc no middle man. It can be a lonely road with income up and down quicker than loose knickers.

    it's going to be an interesting rest of the year

    Leave a comment:


  • SussexSeagull
    replied
    I don't care how niche or in demand your skills are, if there isn't the projects around you aren't going to get the work. Anyone sitting there thinking their magic CV is going to see them walking into outside of IR35 contract in the next 12 months is soon in for a shock.

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    Originally posted by Disguised Contractor View Post
    Thanks for the feedback - but what do you mean by, "doesn't want to take on anything or learn"?

    Frankly, it was a quiet day, and I thought I'd invest some time on this board that I'd only recently joined. I put some time in responding to an interesting post. That's why I'm here.

    I certainly didn't expect to have my mental health evaluated. Does thinking differently worry you?

    And - definitely not Bipolar.

    32?
    Probably 37

    Leave a comment:


  • Disguised Contractor
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    It does and despite endless questions he's been asking the last few days he doesn't appear to want to take anything on or learn. He thinks differently, or the opposite, which would make me wonder why he's asking at all.
    Not adding anything but happy to chat four hours. Wonder if he's bipolar?

    Either way I've made my mind up so..

    32.
    Thanks for the feedback - but what do you mean by, "doesn't want to take on anything or learn"?

    Frankly, it was a quiet day, and I thought I'd invest some time on this board that I'd only recently joined. I put some time in responding to an interesting post. That's why I'm here.

    I certainly didn't expect to have my mental health evaluated. Does thinking differently worry you?

    And - definitely not Bipolar.

    32?

    Leave a comment:


  • BR14
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    It does and despite endless questions he's been asking the last few days he doesn't appear to want to take anything on or learn. He thinks differently, or the opposite, which would make me wonder why he's asking at all.
    Not adding anything but happy to chat four hours. Wonder if he's bipolar?
    'cos he's really JtB? or mb32 or whatever?

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by BR14 View Post
    that post surpasses JtB.
    It does and despite endless questions he's been asking the last few days he doesn't appear to want to take anything on or learn. He thinks differently, or the opposite, which would make me wonder why he's asking at all.
    Not adding anything but happy to chat four hours. Wonder if he's bipolar?

    Either way I've made my mind up so..

    32.

    Leave a comment:


  • BR14
    replied
    that post surpasses JtB.

    Leave a comment:


  • Disguised Contractor
    replied
    Many thanks for that detailed, lengthy, and well-considered response - much appreciated.

    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    It's going to be crazy end march beginning of april to be sure.
    I agree that it will be, but we're in entirely new territory here, so I am not as sure about anybody's predictions as you are about yours - and with all due respect, I sincerely hope you're wrong about some of them.

    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    What are you smoking? It's gonna be bad. Who cares about the workload, it's they way they are going to pay people for that workload. Anyone travelling to their client has to quit. No choice. Then there is the merry go round, the people that are staying etc much of this all being inside IR35.
    The clients care about the workload - and the market will find a new balance as quickly as it will take each ClientCo's executive to tell recruiters and HR departments to get people in. Something will have to give. And I still think that, in the face of negativity such as yours, and the lack of roles currently available, anyone able to stay in work at any rate at all would be a fool not to do so. I suspect there won't be the exodus that is being so vocally proposed, at least not immediately, and not from the permietators - I think that if they don't stay where they are, they will just play musical chairs a bit and do a similar role for another company, so getting around the "continuity of the same role at the same customer" IR35 risk concern. Yes, it means they will go inside IR35, and so they won't get paid as much, so being the avaricious opportunists most of us seem to be, they'll keep an eye on the job market, apply quietly for any outside-IR35 roles, and jump ship when they get one.

    If I was ClientCo, I'd be a bit nervous about essentially having a workforce that has essentially just had to accept a significant wage-cut and is therefore looking to leave at their earliest opportunity for a better offer, but they did this to themselves with their blanket bans, and they don't think that far ahead anyway - most are unaccustomed to worrying about staff morale.

    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    How is painting a fairly bleak, but realistic, picture negative? These are not times the light in the tunnel is shining brightly.
    It depends on the factors you're considering - now, I don't have any better data, so I can;t argue with with your opinion, but I don't agree that the factors you've quoted can only indicate the negative picture you've described. Some of those could actually be beneficial and shift logjams - it's all so complex, anything could happen. That's why I agree, we're in for a crazy time. I prefer to take a wait and see attitude, and I also believe that the intelligent person can adapt and earn money even when the sun isn't shining. Isn't that the sort of pragmatism we espouse?

    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    You've never been out for a long period have you. Very naive and short sighted that.
    No, I'll be honest, I haven't. Relatively speaking between ourselves, I put that down to simply operating in different areas of expertise, which have different levels of supply and demand. That's not naive or short-sighted - anybody who is out of work for a long time, and is unhappy about that, should simply be looking to adapt to finding work that is more plentiful and overall pays more.

    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    I was out for 5 months from Sept to Jan. No point hammering jobserve. There was absolutely sod all on it. Like nothing.
    With all due respect, nothing for you. Now, really, that would tell me that my skills aren't in demand, and I need to build new skills, as I have throughout my career. I estimate that I change my whole skill-set every eight-ten years to match the pace of change of technology, and I do so willingly.

    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    The one that did pop up got hundreds of applications in the first hour. Every single contractor, in gig and on the bench are going for the long tasty outside gigs. I was the most highly qualified ITIL contractor on the planet at one point during this as well. Still made little difference. You won't be talking to dozens of agents a day.
    I won't subscribe to the same level of negativity you feel about this situation - I remember the dry spells in 2000 and 2008, and I was always able to find work, albeit with longer periods of a month or so between roles.

    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    It's a massive jump to go permie, not that there will be many of them about either, and same numbers applying, so its no where near as simple as you think.
    I think many more will be thinking about going permie than you suspect, and if they're not, then they certainly should be.

    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    You will always be there thinking that the one contract you need will pop up today, no need to go perm. I could be on the bench 6 months and still earn more than a perm as well so you'll ignore it for 4 or 5 months and when the realization hits perm is the way you've already spent the time on the bench.
    The word for that is "gambling", and I've never been an advocate of that.

    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    Granted things are going to be quite different in March/April. In theory every inside role people are leaving should be popping up on jobserve so should be absolutely f**king manic. But still inside gigs and still have many many 100's applying. Slightly different but I can't see it's going to be nice. People that live remote, can't take the drop, not very well qualified or experienced and so on are going to take a bad hit.
    Agreed - those of us who travel long distances are going to feel this the most, and I genuinely sympathise with the harm to their livelihoods this silly and unnecessary legislation has wrought.

    Many of the permietractors who live locally don't fit into that category of contractors, and can still service what has become an inside-IR35 role and still make a very good wage.

    But all these roles that are slated to come free as contractors leave, however many it ends up being, and the reasons behind it - there is a constant. There won't be any significant new levels of people entering the market (unless these tales of Infosys flooding the market have credence - and from the calls I'm getting from Infosys, it sounds like they're looking to mop up existing disaffected contractor talent already here, not bring in more people from India, which makes sense - there's an existing well-trained and recognised workforce already here, if they can make use of it and make money from it by putting it back into where it came from, with a big cut for themselves).

    We will have a situation where there are x number of positions now to work at, and practically x people to fulfil them. I can't see it being long before natural pressures reunite the two in some combination - I don't accept that the IT world will stall for very long.

    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    Look at the state of the market thread as well if you don't believe me. A surprising number of people on there 3, 4 or 5 months on the bench and these are the contractors that are at least astute enough to be on CUK.
    I am not saying I disbelieve you - as I said, I have no better data. I'm simply challenging your predictions that you've made, based on that data. I'm saying that it's very much a worst case scenario, open to interpretation, and I'm keeping a more open mind.

    As for those unfortunate individuals you mention, with long periods on the bench, I can't really address those without knowing in what areas they work, and the reasons why they've been there for so long. All I can apply, is a somewhat generic sentiment that if I couldn't find work in my chosen field of work for five months, I'd be seriously considering other career options.

    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    There is no sprinkling glitter on it. This is going to be tough and those that plan it properly are going to be the survivors.
    I agree with that, but with a little more hope...!

    Leave a comment:


  • gables
    replied
    Originally posted by Disguised Contractor View Post
    Not being argumentative, you say - "ended" - past tense, but we're still in February. Mis-tensed, or do I misunderstand? If so, how do you know how many gigs will end in March?



    This sounds very negative, given that the overall workload waiting to be done hasn't changed, and will in fact be growing more urgent as this disruption continues to impact.

    Plus, if I'm now going to be working in a career choice where I am obligated to hammer Jobserve eight hours a day for six months between roles, talking to several dozen agents a day about roles, trying to forestall all the holes a potential client can pick in my CV to avoid having to hire me, and all without payment? If that's the way things are going to be - I'm out too, and my love of doing a professional job in IT will leave with me. I'll just go permie, turn in minimal effort like the rest of them, and catch up on all my backdated work/life balance instead.
    Hmm, people around me aren't doing, not all are unprofessional. I've just gone permie and arguably my work\life balance was better as a contractor e.g 4 day week for starters, mind you the 15 min drive home is nice.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by Disguised Contractor View Post
    Not being argumentative, you say - "ended" - past tense, but we're still in February. Mis-tensed, or do I misunderstand? If so, how do you know how many gigs will end in March?
    More a typo. I meant ending in March.

    I don't know how many exactly but there are quite a few factors that would facilitate this. It's quarter and year end so a natural time for a break normally. Anyone on 3 or 6 months is very likely to have an end date of the 31st to align with clients budgets.
    There is then the fact it's the last end of the month before all this hits so a natural time to implement the changes. Any company putting their contractors inside or banning PSC's will likely be using 31st as cutover day. We have seen a lot of evidence on here with a good majority of newbies starting their contracts end 31st. Just taking a rough percentages of them posting tells me it's the tip of the iceberg.

    The only exception to this is the ones that were ending at the right time with the old payment rules in place.

    It's going to be crazy end march beginning of april to be sure.


    This sounds very negative, given that the overall workload waiting to be done hasn't changed, and will in fact be growing more urgent as this disruption continues to impact.
    What are you smoking? It's gonna be bad. Who cares about the workload, it's they way they are going to pay people for that workload. Anyone travelling to their client has to quit. No choice. Then there is the merry go round, the people that are staying etc much of this all being inside IR35.

    How is painting a fairly bleak, but realistic, picture negative? These are not times the light in the tunnel is shining brightly.
    Plus, if I'm now going to be working in a career choice where I am obligated to hammer Jobserve eight hours a day for six months between roles, talking to several dozen agents a day about roles, trying to forestall all the holes a potential client can pick in my CV to avoid having to hire me, and all without payment? If that's the way things are going to be - I'm out too, and my love of doing a professional job in IT will leave with me. I'll just go permie, turn in minimal effort like the rest of them, and catch up on all my backdated work/life balance instead.
    You've never been out for a long period have you. Very naive and short sighted that. I was out for 5 months from Sept to Jan. No point hammering jobserve. There was absolutely sod all on it. Like nothing. The one that did pop up got hundreds of applications in the first hour. Every single contractor, in gig and on the bench are going for the long tasty outside gigs. I was the most highly qualified ITIL contractor on the planet at one point during this as well. Still made little difference. You won't be talking to dozens of agents a day.

    It's a massive jump to go permie, not that there will be many of them about either, and same numbers applying, so its no where near as simple as you think. You will always be there thinking that the one contract you need will pop up today, no need to go perm. I could be on the bench 6 months and still earn more than a perm as well so you'll ignore it for 4 or 5 months and when the realization hits perm is the way you've already spent the time on the bench.

    Granted things are going to be quite different in March/April. In theory every inside role people are leaving should be popping up on jobserve so should be absolutely f**king manic. But still inside gigs and still have many many 100's applying. Slightly different but I can't see it's going to be nice. People that live remote, can't take the drop, not very well qualified or experienced and so on are going to take a bad hit.

    Look at the state of the market thread as well if you don't believe me. A surprising number of people on there 3, 4 or 5 months on the bench and these are the contractors that are at least astute enough to be on CUK.

    There is no sprinkling glitter on it. This is going to be tough and those that plan it properly are going to be the survivors.
    Last edited by northernladuk; 27 February 2020, 17:03.

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