Homeplug network extenders – security?

[Sysman]

My question is, is there any way we can get round this situation. Bandwidth looks like it will be an issue here as his devices are hijacking ip address from my network. I was under the impression that the fuse boxes cut out any chances of ‘seeing/joining’ any other networks.

Have you tried putting your router and systems onto a different subnet?

Routers typically come with a default IP address of 192.168.1.1 and network mask of 255.255.255.0 which means that they talk to anything in the range 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.254, and if a system set up for DHCP asks for an address to be allocated, it will be in this range.

In other words, if both you and your neighbour are on the 192.168.1.x address ranges you will be able to see each other's systems. You could also end up with duplicate addresses between you, so no surprise if there are connectivity issues.

Pick another address range from the following address blocks, which are reserved for private use (e.g. behind a router):

10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.254
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.254
192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.254

You are best off steering clear of the 192.168 range because everyone and his dog uses that. I am told that this can become especially problematic if you set up an VPN.

Once you have set your router to another address in one of the above ranges, make sure your PCs and telly are set to use that address as the gateway (and DHCP server). Note that when you change your router's IP address, it will probably reboot itself and you won't be able to see it until you change your PC as well (might need a PC reboot).


P.S. Not had my first coffee yet, so would appreciate it if someone could do a sanity check on what I've scrawled above.

[vetran]

There is nothing the the meter to block high frequency.

One in 3 houses are on the same phase. 3 phases off the sub station and you get one of them per house.

Use the security on the mains transceivers!

[DaveB]

I know this thread is old, but I cam across it doing some fact finding. Without repeating myself I've pasted below the question to Devolo.

By the way I've since been told that houses next to each other on the same phase electric (I'm told it's a 1 in 3 chance?) will see each others network.

"I use a pair of your dLAN 200 AVeasy adaptors, 1 unit is from the router to the mains and the 2nd unit is downstairs for the tv. All has been fine until yesterday when my neighbour (not joined to premises) told me he can see 3 of my pc’s, my printer and the tv on his network, he could not access them but could see them. He also stated that his internet connection had dropped in quality over the last 2 days. I to had been having problems for the last two days myself.

I went and looked on his pc and there were the pc’s on my network. I had a look in my router admin panel and there in the active device list were all his devices. We tried different scenarios and found that he could only see mine when his homeplug adaptor (don’t know the make) was connected to the mains. So I disconnected my adaptor from the router and he could no longer see my network.

My question is, is there any way we can get round this situation. Bandwidth looks like it will be an issue here as his devices are hijacking ip address from my network. I was under the impression that the fuse boxes cut out any chances of ‘seeing/joining’ any other networks.

Hope you can shed some light on this matter for us."

I'm awaiting a reply

Did you push the button on your devolo units to turn on the built in security?

[slowhand]

Visible networks

I know this thread is old, but I cam across it doing some fact finding. Without repeating myself I've pasted below the question to Devolo.

By the way I've since been told that houses next to each other on the same phase electric (I'm told it's a 1 in 3 chance?) will see each others network.

"I use a pair of your dLAN 200 AVeasy adaptors, 1 unit is from the router to the mains and the 2nd unit is downstairs for the tv. All has been fine until yesterday when my neighbour (not joined to premises) told me he can see 3 of my pc’s, my printer and the tv on his network, he could not access them but could see them. He also stated that his internet connection had dropped in quality over the last 2 days. I to had been having problems for the last two days myself.

I went and looked on his pc and there were the pc’s on my network. I had a look in my router admin panel and there in the active device list were all his devices. We tried different scenarios and found that he could only see mine when his homeplug adaptor (don’t know the make) was connected to the mains. So I disconnected my adaptor from the router and he could no longer see my network.

My question is, is there any way we can get round this situation. Bandwidth looks like it will be an issue here as his devices are hijacking ip address from my network. I was under the impression that the fuse boxes cut out any chances of ‘seeing/joining’ any other networks.

Hope you can shed some light on this matter for us."

I'm awaiting a reply

[BoredBloke]

I've got 2 homeplugs to get my PC to attach to my router as it is in an akward corner of the house. They are useless - they work fine and then suddenly drop the connection and then kick back in a few seconds later. Pretty crap if you are online playing a game. Not sure if it is something to do with the PC being in a room in the extension or not.

I'd like to try some more up to date ones, but I'm not spending a load more cash on them to get the same result!

[Sysman]

It's not invariably the case that the electricity meter will prevent signals leaving the house (it depends on the meter). But in most cases there will be enough attenuation between houses so that a neighbour could not "share" a connection. The opportunity would come only if there was not enough attenuation and the default network key happened to be the same. Cases where there was not enough attenuation will be rare, most typically in houses converted to flats.

I stayed in a hotel that used these devices. All was well at first but after a week or two performance would degrade massively then it would pack up; I'd end up on someone else's LAN where I had no access to the outside world. It was close enough to the end of the gig I didn't really bother but it made me wonder if either another guest had a malware infested PC or I was getting interference from another building.

[malvolio]

Why not simply set a new password? You'd do it for a WLAN...

[d000hg]

Unless you believe you are actively a target for "espionage" then it seems very unlikely someone would know you had this setup and/or install the same on their own house, next-door. It's not like broadcasting a wireless gateway for anyone driving past.

[VectraMan]

My Netgear ones have a unique 16-character PWD on them, which when I set it up I had to install the software on one PC and enter the codes of the devices I wanted to work together. Something like that - it was a few years ago.

There'd be no need for encryption if the meter was guaranteed to block the signal. But the WiFi part is probably less secure.

[wxman]

So the meter acts as a barrier to the homeplug signal – I am interested to know more
A transformer would block the signal – does a meter have one? Anyone know the voltage that runs down a typical branch line supplying a row of houses? Is it transformed down from 11KV to 240v at the meter?
Finally what then happens in a black of flats
So many questions….

It's not invariably the case that the electricity meter will prevent signals leaving the house (it depends on the meter). But in most cases there will be enough attenuation between houses so that a neighbour could not "share" a connection. The opportunity would come only if there was not enough attenuation and the default network key happened to be the same. Cases where there was not enough attenuation will be rare, most typically in houses converted to flats.

[RichardCranium]

I have devolo dLAN Highspeed Ethernet II adaptors and they are quitebasic but a few years old.

Looking at the current manual, it appears they now each have a 16-bit identified and software for detecting other accessible devices. Mine have none of that.

Also, it seems to depend on manufacturer and model. Some now have a physical press button which, once pressed, the other devices then have only 2 minutes to connect to it and then their chance has gone. The likelihood of your neighbour attaching is tiny.

Also, the market is small and different devices - even from the same manufacturer - are often incompatible. Your neighbour would need to be very lucky to choose the same solution as you.

[RichardCranium]

Hmm. 'Switcher' disagrees:


Homeplug for room with different circuitry

Switcher
Does not require same ring, or even same distribution box. Just as long as it is on same phase coming in to house. Other people on same phase may pick up signal so advisable to use homeplugs security as well as any other security.

Martin12
I have been using a zyxel homeplug router and 2 homeplugs on different ring mains in my home for sometime. I get full signal on all 3. It says in the instructions that the "barrier" to users outside your premises is the meter.

Forum Editor
Home Plug will work on all circuits in your home, provided they are connected to the same consumer unit (fusebox).

Switcher
Does not have on be the same DB, if you are only on one phase to your house all DBs are effectivly at the same electrical point. Your meter will not stop it either any neighbour on the same phase could pick it up if near enough. Use the homeplug security to prevent anyone else being able to connect to your system.

[RichardCranium]

HomePlug FAQ

Can my neighbour steal my internet connection if he has a HomePlug?
No, the electricity meter acts as block on the signals that are transmitted across the network, so there is no chance of them leaking out on to the public wiring and your neighbours picking them up.


What stops HomePlug from working, will they work with extension Lead?
Avoid surge protected / Filtered mains extension blocks as these block the HomePlug signal. Long extension leads will degrade the signal so it is best practice to plug the HomePlug directly into a wall socket.

[wxman]

Anyone have any views with homeplug network devices? For those that don’t know these allow you to pass an Ethernet connection using the mains wiring as a medium. Apparently they have a range of 200 meters.

I have been testing these extenders and they do seem to work. But I now have some real issues over there security. Each pair or group needs to share a common key or password in order to work. Out of the box they have the same default password.

So if I plug in a homeplug, out of the box with the default password - what’s to stop someone next door also plugging one in and then gaining instant access to my network – assuming that most folk won’t have a clue on how to change password any way. I bet that there are 1000’s or password defaulted homeplugs out there.