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Previously on "Recruitment agency wants me to do a CEST and send them the output??"

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  • NotAllThere
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

    Agreed. Permatractors see it as the client interviewing them. Should be a two way discussion where are also digging for info to see if you actually want the role.
    I've been quite successful with it being one way.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by LondonManc View Post

    Agree with the first two paragraphs but disagree with the last. That's what the interview is for.
    Agreed. Permatractors see it as the client interviewing them. Should be a two way discussion where are also digging for info to see if you actually want the role.

    Leave a comment:


  • LondonManc
    replied
    Originally posted by simes View Post

    Bearing in mind the majority of clients are not even using CEST, and that those clients who are engaging are probably brand new to all this and are solely listening to the HMRC party line, which is one of, 'Use CEST', I personally would not want to start a conversation with a likely already nervous client and say, 'But I have something even more brand new as a concept.'

    If you have a talkative client, I personally would get CEST to give me the right answers, engage with the client, demonstrate/present the answers and then, dictate the working conditions to reflect the output. If you have a talkative client.

    The problem is that unlike in times past when HMRC could review both contract and actual working conditions, right now, while the contract can be manipulated, contractors currently have no recourse to assessing what will, at the time of contract signing, be the working conditions for later investigation and retrospective action.
    Agree with the first two paragraphs but disagree with the last. That's what the interview is for.

    Leave a comment:


  • simes
    replied
    Originally posted by Patrick@Intouch View Post
    Also, don't use CEST.

    It's flawed and biased and the best option would be to have a professional review your contract and working practices and provide a report detailing which clauses/behaviours add to or take away from the overall risk that IR35 applies.

    That might then start a discussion with your agency/end hirer about how to engage with you/other contractors through PSC's in a compliant way.
    Bearing in mind the majority of clients are not even using CEST, and that those clients who are engaging are probably brand new to all this and are solely listening to the HMRC party line, which is one of, 'Use CEST', I personally would not want to start a conversation with a likely already nervous client and say, 'But I have something even more brand new as a concept.'

    If you have a talkative client, I personally would get CEST to give me the right answers, engage with the client, demonstrate/present the answers and then, dictate the working conditions to reflect the output. If you have a talkative client.

    The problem is that unlike in times past when HMRC could review both contract and actual working conditions, right now, while the contract can be manipulated, contractors currently have no recourse to assessing what will, at the time of contract signing, be the working conditions for later investigation and retrospective action.

    Leave a comment:


  • Patrick@Intouch
    replied
    Also, don't use CEST.

    It's flawed and biased and the best option would be to have a professional review your contract and working practices and provide a report detailing which clauses/behaviours add to or take away from the overall risk that IR35 applies.

    That might then start a discussion with your agency/end hirer about how to engage with you/other contractors through PSC's in a compliant way.

    Leave a comment:


  • LondonManc
    replied
    Ask for a copy of the proposed contract and working practices because you'll need them for the CEST tool to help evaluate your IR35 status.

    Leave a comment:


  • simes
    replied
    Agreed with the advice.

    If you (OP) are being asked to engage as such with your own responses, I'd take that as, a client who is willing to properly engage with the reforms. So many other clients are not willing to engage or learn, use this as an opportunity to speak frankly and knowledgably about IR35.

    All this if, of course, the contract runs through April and on into the next FY.

    Good luck. Tell us how it goes.

    Leave a comment:


  • cojak
    replied
    If it’s only a one month contract tell the agent to do one.

    Of course if it’s longer than one month...

    Leave a comment:


  • NotAllThere
    replied
    Originally posted by Davenutter View Post
    Thanks for the reply, but I think you have mis understood my question ... it's not to do with what which outcome I would prefer.
    I think you've missed my point.

    April 6th isn't far away. What do you lose by cooperating? Nothing. What do you gain - see jamesbrown's answer.

    Leave a comment:


  • jamesbrown
    replied
    Sure, you can tell them to feck off, obviously.

    Of course, they may tell you to feck off in return.

    But you're right that, absent some sort of contractual requirement that might cover it (your surprise indicates not), there is certainly no legislated requirement, let alone a requirement to complete a CEST, specifically.

    Up to April 5, YourCo decides. After April 6, the contracting chain above you decides (unless the client is a small co or the supply chain is fully overseas). It's conceivable that, post April 5, the client may want your input to help formulate an SDS, so I would double-check that they're not looking to give you a favourable SDS for April 6 before you tell them to feck off.

    Leave a comment:


  • Davenutter
    replied
    Thanks for the reply, but I think you have mis understood my question ... it's not to do with what which outcome I would prefer.

    Has anyone been asked by their agency to send over a CEST evaluation? Is there a legal requirement to do this?

    As of today, the evaluation in the private sector sits with me and it's up to me to determine whether I am inside or outside and do my taxes appropriately from there.

    Therefore in my opinion it has nothing to do with the agency, it's business between myself and HMRC what I decide my current contract is, and am I of sound of thought to tell my agency to foxtrot oscar for any CEST evaluation I make? <--- Is my thinking sound?

    Post 6th April, I don't expect to be doing a CEST as that decision is no longer in my remit, it will be for the client to decide, agreed? Therefore, would I be within my rights to ask how they come up with that assessment or would they tell me to foxtrot oscar?

    Regards
    David

    Leave a comment:


  • NotAllThere
    replied
    So you'd prefer the agent or the client to do it? Which of the three of you is more likely to come up with an answer you like?

    Leave a comment:


  • Recruitment agency wants me to do a CEST and send them the output??

    Hi,

    1st time poster .. my agency has asked me to do a CEST and then to send them the outcome.

    My current thoughts are that it's my company and my CEST and my decision, why should I send it to you!!! He seems to think that it's part of my engagement that I produce this for him and the reasons why I think the contract is outside IR35. I'm sure it's because they are going to change it in a few weeks time, but hey ho.

    Has anyone been asked for this before? Does anyone legally know where I would stand if I told him to foxtrot oscar.

    Regards
    David

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