Outside IR35 contracts

[northernladuk]

Anyway, what I've said about Markel Tax and Qdos is still valid.

It might be but must be taken with caution. It doesn't have anything to do with the status at time of engagement. If you told them you will be in this role for 8 years I'm sure they'll start sucking air through their teeth. Just because it's not asked doesn't mean it's not an issue. The judge in the JLJ case stated the following..

Mr. Spencer continued to work for Allianz, and accepted yearly contract extensions, it seems realistic to say that his status must have changed. He would by then plainly not satisfy many of the tests included in the bullet points in paragraph 55 above. He was engaged on an entirely personal basis. The substitution argument was basically irrelevant “window-dressing”. If he was to be engaged indefinitely on a non-project basis, it seems likely that he was proving useful in numerous respects in relation to computers and IT, and no longer just undertaking his defined projects. So the “control” argument becomes stronger. And fundamentally Allianz wants to engage him as a permanent member of the team.

That bold bit and that whole paragraph strongly indicated the 7 years he was there was part of the issue. So, as I said, length of time as a single point might not be an issue but it brings with it a whole host of issue that courts will, and have, taken in to account. So was the length of time he was engaged for partly responsible for him losing part of the case, the answer is absolutely yes.

[BR14]

"Sadly it appears you've learnt nothing while you've been away."

actually I've learnt how to make a lot of money!

Anyway, what I've said about Markel Tax and Qdos is still valid.

FOG

[JohntheBike]

Sadly it appears you've learnt nothing while you've been away. I'm sure in a number of my posts when I bang on about length of contract I quoted from judgements where length was a factor in the case. If you care to cast your mind back I will have also mentioned that the length of the contract on paper isn't exactly the problem, becoming part and parcel and forgetting to be outside is the factor linked to length that kills most contractors.

But stick around, you'll see me mention it more. Better still don't. It was nice when you weren't around.

"Sadly it appears you've learnt nothing while you've been away."

actually I've learnt how to make a lot of money!

Anyway, what I've said about Markel Tax and Qdos is still valid.

[northernladuk]

I see that NorthernladUK is still banging on about length of contracts when legally little if any weight is given to this situation. Furthermore, neither Markel Tax nor Qdos ask such a question in their extensive questionnaire when deciding if contracts are subject to IR35

Sadly it appears you've learnt nothing while you've been away. I'm sure in a number of my posts when I bang on about length of contract I quoted from judgements where length was a factor in the case. If you care to cast your mind back I will have also mentioned that the length of the contract on paper isn't exactly the problem, becoming part and parcel and forgetting to be outside is the factor linked to length that kills most contractors.

But stick around, you'll see me mention it more. Better still don't. It was nice when you weren't around.

[JohntheBike]

I see that NorthernladUK is still banging on about length of contracts when legally little if any weight is given to this situation. Furthermore, neither Markel Tax nor Qdos ask such a question in their extensive questionnaire when deciding if contracts are subject to IR35

[vwdan]

Nah. Keyboards always need swapping

As if they'd let me out on the floor!

[northernladuk]

I'm a contract with a bank, outside IR35 along with the others in the team and it runs past April with what appears to be a renewal heavily on the cards.

I wonder if the delays have given companies time to take a breath and act more sensibly

Nah. Keyboards always need swapping

[vwdan]

I'm a contract with a bank, outside IR35 along with the others in the team and it runs past April with what appears to be a renewal heavily on the cards.

I wonder if the delays have given companies time to take a breath and act more sensibly

[northernladuk]

My sister is a PM in insurance. She was told she will be placed outside on a SoW.

And where I am, just yesterday, I had 'apparently' filled in the CEST and SDS, and was told I will remain outside. Neither of us had anything to do with the process, much less the outcome so, frankly, this is really quite positive!

Judging by your posts on here you want to be thanking your lucky stars that was the case

[simes]

My sister is a PM in insurance. She was told she will be placed outside on a SoW.

And where I am, just yesterday, I had 'apparently' filled in the CEST and SDS, and was told I will remain outside. Neither of us had anything to do with the process, much less the outcome so, frankly, this is really quite positive!

[northernladuk]

Astrazeneca? That place was inside heaven all day long. Many contractors there 5, 6 years and more. I had to leave there because the gig had gone on so long my IR35 position was untenable. Dozens of people I knew were happy to keep taking the next job and carry on.
I'd be interested to see how many have been moved inside, particularly the long stayers. I'll give it five years before HMRC knock on AZ's door and ask how they are giving the same contractor an outside determination even though they've been there approach double figures years with multi job roles.

I had no doubt there would be companies doing it right and going outside. It was only the banks that were going no PSC's routes as a default and it's arguable it was right they way they treated their contractors anyway. There were a hell of a lot of clients using the QDOS and other consultancy products to assess their contractors in the first rush so not surprising there are some still doing it. I think the the list will get longer and longer but inside will still eclipse them sadly.

The only downside is these places will be every contractors target so there will undoubtedly be less churn as there will be fewer outside gigs to jump to so I imagine the clients mentioned in the article will become very closed shop.

[ladymuck]

It's a start! Where some lead, others may follow.

[Paralytic]

"At least 11 clients..."


Wow!

[saptastic]

https://www.contractoruk.com/news/00...or_sector.html

Interesting to see positivity...hopefully those with blanket determinations will struggle to attract the right skills.