Reply to: Most contracts being advertised as Outside IR35 - Azure/Cloud Consultant

[JamesBrown11]

Time to pick up some new skills. Post April contractors will fight for every outside contract to the death. Real-life Hunger Games.

[eek]

That was supposed to be a joke in reference to what plan B "they" have.

Sadly it's probably not far from the truth for most.

And if that is what occurs than the market will return to how it was in the late 80's (before I arrived) where very skilled people will be contracting and most people will be PAYE.

[dsc]

That was supposed to be a joke in reference to what plan B "they" have.

Sadly it's probably not far from the truth for most.

[eek]

Go umbrella / PAYE for a bit to see what happens

If that's your plan b, you are part of the problem not part of any solution.

[dsc]

Depends if they have a plan b or not.

Go umbrella / PAYE for a bit to see what happens

[eek]

That is very dependent on who blinks first, clients or contractors?

How many contractors will be happy to stay benched until the Autumn?

Depends if they have a plan b or not.

[dsc]

During public sector reforms private sector was the safety net for a lot I think, this time around there is no safety net, just brollies and PAYE. As it's been mentioned before and seen here, people are already caving in, worrying mostly about the fact that they will have to leave, taking the 30% paycut on the chin.

[cojak]

I believe the private sector will follow what happened in the public sector, ie. first few months will be depressing, but then compliant outside-IR35 contracts will emerge as clients will have to give in.

That is very dependent on who blinks first, clients or contractors?

How many contractors will be happy to stay benched until the Autumn?

[JamesBrown11]

I believe the private sector will follow what happened in the public sector, ie. first few months will be depressing, but then compliant outside-IR35 contracts will emerge as clients will have to give in.

[ComplianceLady]

That's actually way better than I assumed, I thought it would be closer to 90/10 split. Do you know what the idea behind rate increases is? Just trying to retain the best talent on B2B arrangements? I thought every contractor would be super happy with a proper B2B relationship even on the same rate.

No the rate change is for inside IR35/umb/paye. So the idea is:

Flex on working arrangements = keep contractors outside & no change to rate or resource
Flex on rate = have inside IR35 working arrangements and keep resource
Flex on resource - have inside IR35 working arrangements, keep rate the same and lose contractors/skill

Clients generally are either:

Roles are mostly outside - client wants to keep status quo and so we do formal assessment, provide insurance and all continues as normal
Roles are mostly on border/inside - we present them with the 3 options, what do you want to flex on?
Client doesn't want to engage and takes the 'policy' approach
Roles are mostly inside - client doesn't want to flex on anything and it comes down to a stand off - client says rate is unchanged, take it or leave it, contractors don't like it. We're currently in the time where both parties are saying the other will have to change position - we won't know how that turns out until later down the line.

[dsc]

At the moment I'd say most - maybe 60% are going with flex on resource - risking losing contractors or gambling on not losing them, 30% are flexing on working arrangements, this tends to be quite sector dependent - some sectors all clients are flexing on this, some none are, and 1 in 10 is increasing rates but no one by more than 5%. I think rates will increase but there's a reluctance to attribute it to this directly.

That's actually way better than I assumed, I thought it would be closer to 90/10 split. Do you know what the idea behind rate increases is? Just trying to retain the best talent on B2B arrangements? I thought every contractor would be super happy with a proper B2B relationship even on the same rate.

[ComplianceLady]

From your experience, roughly, what's the percentage spread across all three flex options? I kind of have a feeling not a lot of companies go for option no 3, which to me is the simplest (also the one which I think a lot of companies have a problem with for some reason).

At the moment I'd say most - maybe 60% are going with flex on resource - risking losing contractors or gambling on not losing them, 30% are flexing on working arrangements, this tends to be quite sector dependent - some sectors all clients are flexing on this, some none are, and 1 in 10 is increasing rates but no one by more than 5%. I think rates will increase but there's a reluctance to attribute it to this directly.

[dsc]

We are advising clients you have to flex on either: 1. resource - get less resource, less skill etc. 2. Cost - pay consultancy, increase rates etc. or 3. Working arrangements - engage in a truly B2B manner and you can get the same resource at the same cost.

From your experience, roughly, what's the percentage spread across all three flex options? I kind of have a feeling not a lot of companies go for option no 3, which to me is the simplest (also the one which I think a lot of companies have a problem with for some reason).

[JohntheBike]

Whilst I agree with the principal that a client/agency should not be able to simply pass on any risk via a clause in the contract, what specific rights are being signed away, given this is a business to business contract?

clearly I can't see the details of the contract. The point I'm making is that if there are statutory regulations in place to cover any agreement, then these can't be signed away. So, e.g. if there is an existing contract between two parties, then if one party is allowed to continue after that contract expires without a new contract, then contract statute dictates that the previous contract is still in force.

[rockinghorse]

ERP / Business Central or CRM / CE / Powerapps?

all of the above