Reply to: Blanket decisions of inside IR35

[LondonManc]

Just talking to a former contractor colleague at an NHS Trust.

He pointed out that the legislation has a due care clause which doesn't allow them to blanket review the roles, which is what they previously did (i.e. all inside IR35). He is outside IR35 now.

Unfortunately many contractors won't be aware of this clause.

[northernladyuk]

Just talking to a former contractor colleague at an NHS Trust.

He pointed out that the legislation has a due care clause which doesn't allow them to blanket review the roles, which is what they previously did (i.e. all inside IR35). He is outside IR35 now.

[jamesbrown]

I guess you don't need to take "reasonable care" if you just ban PSC's.

Right. If a PSB is looking to make a blanket inside determination, or an agency is looking to avoid any risk, this is how they will/should to it, mechanically, given the new reasonable care provision.

[gables]

Are we seeing a similar situation to that in the 70s where a rule\legislation (I'm unclear on the details) was introduced which effectively meant trading as a sole trader via an agent became impossible as they insisted on Ltd?

[LondonManc]

We've just had a trust refuse to deal with PSC's to be fair the first we had.

Is that despite you trying to educate them?

They do realise it will be cheaper for them to take outside IR35 PSCs on, don't they?

[LoughriggFell]

Similar situation, one agency terminated all contracts on the 19th and restarted as an umbrella on 20th stating

'In some cases PSC’s, whether paid gross or net will not be allowed in the supply chain'

I guess you don't need to take "reasonable care" if you just ban PSC's.

[John Lane]

Capita

All contracts ended by capita then any renewal by umbrella only - sort of blanket decision, but not.?...

[lucyclarityumbrella]

A little panic in this last week is what we are seeing at this moment in time

[Andy Hallett]

We've just had a trust refuse to deal with PSC's to be fair the first we had.

[northernladyuk]

Yep. HMRC's digital transformation guys declared all contractors inside last Monday. They're losing a lot of talented quislings.

FTFY

[marius123]

The irony - today I got a call from a contractor within HMRC saying they had made the blanket decision for inside too

Yep. HMRC's digital transformation guys declared all contractors inside last Monday. They're losing a lot of talented people.

[lucyclarityumbrella]

“Put simply, this [new reasonable care clause at 61T6c)] means that public sector clients must not make general, blanket determinations” of contractors’ IR35 status, says Qdos Contractor.

harumph !

The irony - today I got a call from a contractor within HMRC saying they had made the blanket decision for inside too

[eek]

No real clarity about what the individual can do if the client has made a blanket (inside) determination though.

I half suspect it's intentional. I remember when we first looked at things this time last year we couldn't work out how you could appeal an inside decision (who you appeal to, how you could remain in contract while the appeal was heard, how and who repairs National Insurance payments which are per week / month so not reclaimable in the way income tax could possibly be)... and as you say we still don't know how and when you could do so...

And that was why come October everyone around here was saying that the only appropriate attack is probably to seek employment rights...

[WordIsBond]

Putting that aside, given that this is only my 2nd week in this role and I have changed PSB and Agency are my chances of retrograb reduced do we think?

Nobody knows, of course, but I'd guess so.

But I would definitely declare the first few weeks of this contract as inside, if you stay. That way, if ever investigated, you can claim to be responsible about IR35, otherwise you look like a tax dodger for a few weeks worth of tax savings. Don't do that.

I'd also be telling them if they are going to put their hands in your pocket and rip you off just so they can avoid conflict among other contractors that they should at least uplift your rate by 15% to cover the employers NI.

[hollyblue]

Client cannot be swayed and have determined me inside, even though my T&C are completely different to the other 'contractors' in the team and they have stated that they are treating us all the same. They are clearly concerned that if the others find out they'll all want to re-negotiate same as me.

I'm resigned that to remain in this contact I'm going to have to be inside. It's a very local role to home and the T&C I've agreed with them are quite favourable. Putting that aside, given that this is only my 2nd week in this role and I have changed PSB and Agency are my chances of retrograb reduced do we think?