Reply to: "HMRC will stand by the result given"

[jamesbrown]

It appears that if you have to fix a job on your own time if you mess up, that's a silver bullet.

Not that I recall(?). At least in the beta, I recall doing some control tests, and that alone wasn't sufficient. The RoS is a silver bullet but, if the (incorrect) guidance is read properly, it's very difficult to pass on RoS. If you're an expert, and the (incorrect) guidance is read properly, it's very difficult to pass on D&C. The equipment question is intended to bypass a majority of contractors. Bottom line, I'm pretty skeptical about folks getting outside determinations based on their contract having a RoS or lack of D&C or a requirement to use their own equipment, if the guidance is being followed. In other words, I'm pretty skeptical that a majority of people are reading the guidance . The guidance is nonsense, of course, but it's going to lead to a lot of "inside" or "undetermined" results if it's followed to the letter.

[WordIsBond]

Well, if a laptop isn't listed under "equipment" is it included under "Other expenses" or does it just not exist, according to HMRC? Perhaps they can tell us where we can buy laptops for free, so that purchasing them doesn't incur "financial risk".

It appears that if you have to fix a job on your own time if you mess up, that's a silver bullet. But I've spent far more on laptops than I've ever had to spending on fixing errors in my work. I suppose the exposure of the latter is a lot higher, but in actual expenses incurred, it's the former that has hit me and is likely to go on hitting me.

[gables]

The tool has changed.

The "equipment" question now explicitly excludes laptops - that's going to catch a lot more.

"Equipment - including heavy machinery, industrial vehicles or high-cost specialist equipment, but not including phones, tablets or laptops."

And there is a "version number" at the bottom of the results page, so they can tie your decision outcome to the questions.

Interesting that it could be seen that contracts\working practices could be contrived to 'get around IR35' and in my view here we have HMRC contriving a question to catch us.

[Yorkie62]

So if I need to supply my own laptop to provide an IT service that's not valid but heavy machinery is OK.

Just buy the heaviest laptop you can find. Where is the definition of heavy?

[Andy Hallett]

The ESS has been surprisingly generous in terms of outside determinations, this is not surprising news if HMRC are tweaking it.

[RonBW]

The tool has changed.

The "equipment" question now explicitly excludes laptops - that's going to catch a lot more.

"Equipment - including heavy machinery, industrial vehicles or high-cost specialist equipment, but not including phones, tablets or laptops."

And there is a "version number" at the bottom of the results page, so they can tie your decision outcome to the questions.

Interesting - the print out I have from day one gives me an outside determination based on me needing a laptop for this client that I didn't have or need before the project.

If I run the same answers now, I get indeterminate answer - because the guidance has changed. My print out doesn't give the guidance or a version number, but was done accurately a few days ago.

Interesting times ahead.

[javadude]

The tool has changed.

The "equipment" question now explicitly excludes laptops - that's going to catch a lot more.

"Equipment - including heavy machinery, industrial vehicles or high-cost specialist equipment, but not including phones, tablets or laptops."

And there is a "version number" at the bottom of the results page, so they can tie your decision outcome to the questions.

So if I need to supply my own laptop to provide an IT service that's not valid but heavy machinery is OK.

[eek]

Just redone the survey with my current status at clientco... Easy outside verdict and the Permies would get the same answer...

[SueEllen]

Current version says 1.1.1-final

[eek]

The tool has changed.

The "equipment" question now explicitly excludes laptops - that's going to catch a lot more.

"Equipment - including heavy machinery, industrial vehicles or high-cost specialist equipment, but not including phones, tablets or laptops."

And there is a "version number" at the bottom of the results page, so they can tie your decision outcome to the questions.

so the equipment question now bears even less resemblance to the law than before.

[mudskipper]

The tool has changed.

The "equipment" question now explicitly excludes laptops - that's going to catch a lot more.

"Equipment - including heavy machinery, industrial vehicles or high-cost specialist equipment, but not including phones, tablets or laptops."

And there is a "version number" at the bottom of the results page, so they can tie your decision outcome to the questions.

[Nerdiburito]

I've been worried about what would happen going from outside to inside IR35 but was convinced to see what would happen before quitting. I submitted my original test(done using an independant test) and the ESS response. Today I've had this response

"We have also used the assessment tool ourselves and entered the details of your current assignments from the perspective of the end client - there are additional questions to answer when the tool is used this way. We have had some differing results when filling out the assessment ourselves and are current liaising with HMRC and other government colleagues on the most appropriate approach to take on some of these questions. "

Im now worried about what they are sharing with HMRC. Is it time to pull the plug and let the dust settle?

[northernladuk]

I'm really trying.

Which puts you way ahead of the curve compared to many to be fair so take some solace from that and keep plugging on. It's a proper quagmire at best.

[DanielSQL]

You should be concerned if you don't have a good understanding with a gig coming up. With a potential 40% difference in income it would be wise to get all over it, and quickly.

I'm really trying.

[rsl]

So, what happens if your PS client reviews your role and determines you are outside IR35?

Will HMRC just accept it or will they investigate the client (one branch of government investigating another......)