Originally posted by borisbike3
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Previously on "HMRC compliance check letter regarding disguised remuneration scheme"
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Originally posted by dammit chloe View PostThere are several legal cases going on. The only one I have any hope in is the Hoey case which would remove any pre-2010 open years if the court finds in Hoey's favour.
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Originally posted by eek View PostIt's actually sneakier than that.
A loan would be x months of paying £y until the debt is repaid.
An annuity is paying £y a month from the specified start date for evermore.
The odds anyone who signed up for this scheme had a clue as to what they were agreeing to has to be zero. But it looked fancy and gave them a few more quid.
Anyway, in the first instance, annuities are very much taxed as income. There cannot be any doubt really about that. Would have loved to have heard the sales blurb about this scheme.Last edited by Fred Bloggs; 3 February 2021, 15:02.
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Originally posted by min123 View PostSo I’ve spoke to WTT and he has advised if you don’t want this hanging around just give them what they want
and wait for a settlement figure. Or if you want to fight then I can join The Big Group and fight this. I’ve already signed upto LCAG, but I didn’t realise there were 2 groups taking HMRC to court.
For the tax year 2018-2019 schemes you will have ZERO chance of challenging anything with HMRC in courts. Their argument is solid and all was very much clear that the schemes were fully taxable.
Save yourself professional fees to WTT and anyone else, Use a tax calculator and an accountant to verify your full PAYE liabilities and settle with HMRC. I would in fact start by paying some Cash on Account NOW to HMRC just to stop the interest HMRC will charge you.
As I said earlier, your biggest issue in fact is not HMRC and what you owe them. Its the scheme promoter who will ask you to pay the loans back in a few years time.
Even worse than that is the scheme company will shut down, owing millions and a legitimate liquidator will come after you for the loan. What you need is to start the process to nullify the loan agreement as it was a misrepresentation of the law as it stood for the tax year 2018-2019. For that you will need professional advise but not sure if WTT is who you should go to .
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Originally posted by min123 View PostAnyway, I think I will settle, it’s the best thing- I don’t want my family being dragged along this, I just want a quick resolve.
The chances of this annuity scheme succeeding in court are virtually nil.
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It's a shame that rogue outfits, often purporting to be legitimate brollies, still appear to be able to freely peddle these scams.
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Originally posted by eek View PostDid you read the actual thread before posting your comment.
What has Hoey got to do with income / payments from 2017 onwards.
I don't spend all day on the boards like you obsessively do.
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Originally posted by Fred Bloggs View PostPrecisely. I guess some folks come here and believe some of this stuff they read. It's not clear to me what the OP's exposures is from the "annuities" nor how to unwind them. I'm guessing legally they're going to be just another name given to loaned money like the other failed schemes.
A loan would be x months of paying £y until the debt is repaid.
An annuity is paying £y a month from the specified start date for evermore.
The odds anyone who signed up for this scheme had a clue as to what they were agreeing to has to be zero. But it looked fancy and gave them a few more quid.Last edited by eek; 3 February 2021, 10:06.
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Originally posted by eek View PostDid you read the actual thread before posting your comment.
What has Hoey got to do with income / payments from 2017 onwards.
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Originally posted by dammit chloe View PostThere are several legal cases going on. The only one I have any hope in is the Hoey case which would remove any pre-2010 open years if the court finds in Hoey's favour.
If you are happy dealing with HMRC direct a tax advisor adds very little. Just make sure you read and double check any figures. HMRC make mistakes. Often.
What has Hoey got to do with income / payments from 2017 onwards.
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Originally posted by min123 View PostSo I’ve spoke to WTT and he has advised if you don’t want this hanging around just give them what they want
and wait for a settlement figure. Or if you want to fight then I can join The Big Group and fight this. I’ve already signed upto LCAG, but I didn’t realise there were 2 groups taking HMRC to court.
Anyway, I think I will settle, it’s the best thing- I don’t want my family being dragged along this, I just want a quick resolve. Issue is they have asked for me to look at the ‘schedule’ and send documentation according to that - I didn’t receive a schedule, shall I call HMRC and ask them to send it?
Also, should I get a tax advisor to deal with this on my behalf rather than me dealing with HMRC? Or will HMRC be lenient if they deal with me personally?
If you are happy dealing with HMRC direct a tax advisor adds very little. Just make sure you read and double check any figures. HMRC make mistakes. Often.
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So I’ve spoke to WTT and he has advised if you don’t want this hanging around just give them what they want
and wait for a settlement figure. Or if you want to fight then I can join The Big Group and fight this. I’ve already signed upto LCAG, but I didn’t realise there were 2 groups taking HMRC to court.
Anyway, I think I will settle, it’s the best thing- I don’t want my family being dragged along this, I just want a quick resolve. Issue is they have asked for me to look at the ‘schedule’ and send documentation according to that - I didn’t receive a schedule, shall I call HMRC and ask them to send it?
Also, should I get a tax advisor to deal with this on my behalf rather than me dealing with HMRC? Or will HMRC be lenient if they deal with me personally?
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Originally posted by regron View PostMmm... HMRC disagree and say annuity payments ARE subject to the Loan Charge.
Disguised remuneration: tax avoidance using annuities (Spotlight 35) - GOV.UK
Unfortunately, then, that is something else min123 will have to contend with.
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Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View PostOn the face of it, that doesn't sound like a loan. In which case it's a plus on two counts, (1) you shouldn't be liable for the Loan Charge for the payments you received in 2017/18 and (2) someone can't come along at a later date, like other scam merchants have, and try and demand you repay the money.
I think your best option may be to settle with HMRC and get a long payment plan (time to pay).
If the scheme provider, or anyone else, suggests fighting HMRC think very carefully. Whilst it might seem tempting to try and avoid having to pay, this could lead to many years of worry and uncertainty hanging over you.
I also fear schemes like this are vulnerable to the GAAR (google it) which could leave users, who don't settle, liable to up to 60% penalties on top of the tax.
Mmm... HMRC disagree and say annuity payments ARE subject to the Loan Charge.
Disguised remuneration: tax avoidance using annuities (Spotlight 35) - GOV.UK
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Originally posted by min123 View PostSo the second part payment was an annuity payment
I think your best option may be to settle with HMRC and get a long payment plan (time to pay).
If the scheme provider, or anyone else, suggests fighting HMRC think very carefully. Whilst it might seem tempting to try and avoid having to pay, this could lead to many years of worry and uncertainty hanging over you.
I also fear schemes like this are vulnerable to the GAAR (google it) which could leave users, who don't settle, liable to up to 60% penalties on top of the tax.Last edited by DealorNoDeal; 2 February 2021, 11:41.
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