Reply to: Overdrawn Capital Account Scheme (Aston Mae / Glen Mae / Procorre)

[GregRickshaw]

I had cause to deal with HMRC recently, though not because of any of the schemes.

I had a similar experience as you, but it's important to distinguish between the on-phone HMRC staff (who were very helpful) and the Field Collection people (pay everything now or we take your house).
The field collection people are very poorly informed contractors who come to your house to put the frighteners on.

Were these the the Rottweilers you experienced? Brrrrr....

There's been a definite shift in sympathy maybe the mental health push? I remember being late in my very early days for a CT payment and the inspector there telling me he'd have three people at my house at the end of the week with a For Sale board! For real! He asked me if I thought it was funny because I let out a startled laugh how you do...

I had one field agent knock the door before I had moved my address to an office who was very sly, kept trying to get in and look past me into the house.

I think now only the debt collection agencies would come to your door, not clueless HMRC, those companies are heavily regulated these days.

[Dorkeaux]

I used an advisor and they were brilliant, I have advised of their name many times, Gilbert Tax. They did everything for me even managed to get rid of late charge fees (and the interest on the late fees).

I would 100% go to an advisor.

I have found recently going to HMRC directly they do seem to have employed much more sympathetic advisors compared to the Rottweilers they had a few years ago, whose go to advice was sell your house or we're coming to get it anyway.

I had cause to deal with HMRC recently, though not because of any of the schemes.

I had a similar experience as you, but it's important to distinguish between the on-phone HMRC staff (who were very helpful) and the Field Collection people (pay everything now or we take your house).
The field collection people are very poorly informed contractors who come to your house to put the frighteners on.

Were these the the Rottweilers you experienced? Brrrrr....

[GregRickshaw]

Did you agree your TTP directly with HMRC or you went through a tax advisor. Is is worth going through them?

I used an advisor and they were brilliant, I have advised of their name many times, Gilbert Tax. They did everything for me even managed to get rid of late charge fees (and the interest on the late fees).

I would 100% go to an advisor.

I have found recently going to HMRC directly they do seem to have employed much more sympathetic advisors compared to the Rottweilers they had a few years ago, whose go to advice was sell your house or we're coming to get it anyway.

[Snooky]

Did you agree your TTP directly with HMRC or you went through a tax advisor. Is is worth going through them?

I went through a tax advisor. It wasn't cheap but they worked out what the settlement should be and dealt with HMRC on my behalf, including advising me what payment schedule might be acceptable to HMRC.

This was Montpelier, not Procorre, but it was a similar situation.

[Mistyblue]

I hear Procorre is not helping. Does it mean they wont appeal on this matter any more . Do they not have a duty of care to take us out of this mess. Is this not in the contract. I have not worked at all in 2020/2021 and yet HMRC has sent me letters with outstanding NIC. They have given liability for 2018/19 and 2019/20 . there is no clue how they arrived with the figures. You all are talking high figures mine are very small . Should I now that they are saying Procorre is not res[ponding, approach HMRC directly and enquire how they got the figures from and then arrange payment agreement? Could somebody guide me please. cannot even afford to get a specialist. I was with Glen Mae and was taken over by Procorre without my consent saying it will be same agreement as before. Glen Mae vouched everything is HMRC approval.

[Mistyblue]

Given this may run and run (and has already run) you need to get your own ideal scenario underway which is a settlement from what you say in your posts.

A good tax advisor will be able to get the figure HMRC say you owe, then get your tax advisor to call them and work out the TTP, a good advisor can do this very quickly and easily. Then you get your life back at least.

I don't know WTT enough to comment but I don't think any of the tax advisors has had even a sniff of winning one 'these' cases, they (the tax advisors) just seem to keep asking for appeals and more information whilst charging a lot of money (which is fine they have a job to do), but given the history of DR's/Schemes etc., are you just throwing more good money after bad.

I settled (not this scheme) a long time ago, got a long TTP thanks to my advisors and my MP and got on with life. Found I could pay it off in half the time but important thing was I got my life back.... ulp

And then MSC came... ha ha ha...

Did you agree your TTP directly with HMRC or you went through a tax advisor. Is is worth going through them?

[Mistyblue]

I reached an agreement with HMRC to repay the loan charge liability + penalties + interest. I'm 63 and this will take me until I'm 76 to repay. Happy days - no, but at least it's ended the constant stress and worry about how bad the outcome might turn out to be.

Did you negotiate with HMRC yourself or you went through a third party please? How did you do it?

[cojak]

Received an email yesterday from another ambulance chaser firm, this time RPC Legal asking if I want to join The Procorre LLP Group Association to challenge HMRC on their decision, all for the extremely reasonable price of £3500.

Think I'll pass, thanks.

Jeeze, any opportunity, eh?

[mightyspur]

Received an email yesterday from another ambulance chaser firm, this time RPC Legal asking if I want to join The Procorre LLP Group Association to challenge HMRC on their decision, all for the extremely reasonable price of £3500.

Think I'll pass, thanks.

[piebaps]

Remember this link https://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc...f-options.html

And in particular this advice;

If you are feeling desperate about the situation you are finding yourself in with regards to the HMRC please talk to someone about what is happening (talking on forum does not count). Please talk to a friend, a family member or someone from an organisation like Samaritans (ph. 116 123). Sharing what you are going through with someone can make a big difference to how you feel even if the circumstances don't change.

Talking about financial matters is not easy or normal for most people and there may be a feeling of shame about the situation holding you back from talking to someone. It might be helpful to frame the conversation like this

- You made a mistake and a lot of other people have made the same mistake
- This was openly and widely marketed and no action was taken by the HMRC to shut the schemes down when the action started
- The HMRC are now taking retrospective action but are only targeting the end users of the scheme not the schemes promoters or end clients who may have forced people into using the scheme

Please also remember that it is just money. Yes it is crappy to maybe maybe lose your home and go bankrupt and see your earnings from a lot of hard work disappear but you can survive and rebuild afterwards. I can't speak for everyones situation but please take time to consider what you do have and what the HMRC cannot take away from you.

[suckerpunch]

Have you still not started the process, now you're into the Christmas shutdown, HMRC shutdown... their interest and late penalties don't. Choose someone to do your bidding and get started, this is truly one of those moments in your life where time is absolutely of the essence.

I have started the process, yes, I have asked Gilbert Tax to represent me.

Now I wait to see what fresh hell next year will bring. A few weeks, maybe months, of stress and self-loathing. It's hit me bad. My wife and I have become strangers living in the same house and I can't look at the kids without feeling guilty. My son wants to go to college and then university, but that might not happen because of my poor choices.

I wake up early to exercise every day - it helps dissipate the anxiety, but not the shame.

I'll keep you all updated - writing about it helps.

[GregRickshaw]

Which firm did you engage?

Have you still not started the process, now you're into the Christmas shutdown, HMRC shutdown... their interest and late penalties don't. Choose someone to do your bidding and get started, this is truly one of those moments in your life where time is absolutely of the essence.

[mightyspur]

I truly appreciate your advice, thank you. I'm going to settle and take the pain. There is no easy way out.

I am also going through this, as you may have gathered from my posts. I pretty much agreed to settle from the outset, but I am still waiting for HMRC to give me a settlement figure. In the mean time, I have been paying as much as I can realistically afford each month, without making huge cut-backs. I figure it shows willing and may be viewed favourably by HMRC when they finally get around to giving me the final amount and I start to discuss the TTP arrangement.

It is HMRC though, so who knows.

[Snooky]

Which firm did you engage?

DTE Group, because my accountant recommended them. It looks like they're now part of DJH (Bury).

I'm sure there are plenty of other tax specialists out there, I only have experience of this company and they did a good job.

[suckerpunch]

I think this is wise. I have no real extra advice to add, just some personal experience.

Unless you've been antagonistic or fraudulent in your dealings with them, HMRC will normally be willing to enter into a Time To Pay (TTP) arrangement, where you supply your income and expenditure details and make an offer for how much you think you can reasonably repay monthly. In my case, because I chose to settle voluntarily, penalties were waived, although the total amount repayable still included interest from the notional date the tax became due to the point at which it was repaid (under a TTP that will be some time in the future). However, they don't compound the interest.

It was a tough bullet to bite but I just needed to close that issue down and not have it hanging over me any longer. That was a few years ago and I'm still paying it back, a few hundred £ a month.

The other benefit of coming to terms with them in a civilised way is that if your financial situation deteriorates you can go back and ask for the payment schedule to be amended. As long as they think they'll get the money back in due course and you're not taking the p***, they'll be happy. They don't want the expense and hassle of tribunals or bankruptcy proceedings.

I engaged a tax firm recommended by my accountant and they did all the talking to HMRC and negotiating the settlement. You don't have to do this of course, you can approach them directly.

Which firm did you engage?