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Previously on "Overdrawn Capital Account Scheme (Aston Mae / Glen Mae / Procorre)"

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  • Joby
    replied
    Originally posted by interestedparty View Post

    I know we have no definite closure on this, but I am just beginning to feel some optimism that HMRC will never take any meaningful action, whilst still feeling very nervous every time a brown envelope comes through the letter box.
    I'm starting to get seriously squeezed by HMRC now. Asking lots of questions both of me and my PSC.

    Leave a comment:


  • interestedparty
    replied
    Originally posted by Bombus View Post

    I am in a similar boat as was contracted through Glen May in 2013/4 and have received a few Self Assessement checks since then. The latest check was for my 2019 return. I have provided HMRC with a complete record of all payments made to me by Glen May way back in 2015. In a 2016 letter they stated "HMRC is pursuing enquiries into scheme arrangements by requesting information and documents from selected scheme users and will work these cases to fully establish the facts and take these cases to tribunal as necessary"

    I have not heard of a case going to tribunal and suspect their case is not strong enough to take to one as they would have done it by now. I have not read this thread for a while but it seems that HMRC are using a variety of tactics now with different individuals.
    I know we have no definite closure on this, but I am just beginning to feel some optimism that HMRC will never take any meaningful action, whilst still feeling very nervous every time a brown envelope comes through the letter box.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bombus
    replied
    Originally posted by interestedparty View Post
    Is anyone still disputing this with HMRC, i.e., are they putting forward the argument that the payments from Aston Mae/Glen Mae/Procorre were not a loan, and hence no tax liability exists. I have consistently followed this line for 6 years and everything has been quiet for over six months?
    I am in a similar boat as was contracted through Glen May in 2013/4 and have received a few Self Assessement checks since then. The latest check was for my 2019 return. I have provided HMRC with a complete record of all payments made to me by Glen May way back in 2015. In a 2016 letter they stated "HMRC is pursuing enquiries into scheme arrangements by requesting information and documents from selected scheme users and will work these cases to fully establish the facts and take these cases to tribunal as necessary"

    I have not heard of a case going to tribunal and suspect their case is not strong enough to take to one as they would have done it by now. I have not read this thread for a while but it seems that HMRC are using a variety of tactics now with different individuals.

    Leave a comment:


  • interestedparty
    replied
    Is anyone still disputing this with HMRC, i.e., are they putting forward the argument that the payments from Aston Mae/Glen Mae/Procorre were not a loan, and hence no tax liability exists. I have consistently followed this line for 6 years and everything has been quiet for over six months?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jumper
    replied
    Originally posted by frontmen242 View Post

    HI there,

    Your situation sounds very familiar I too had the overdrawn capital account letter, and speaking with various accountants they said I had to declare the £44K even though it was from 2015 covering approx 2 years or so...I too did not know of this bombshell hitting me. In the end I declared it as I had been working as a permie for nearly 2 years at this point no way did I have the coffers but I knew it would be better declaring than ignoring. HMRC have a thing for me and still wont let me close my company, but I am wondering....

    So in the end I had to cough up 13.5K as it is declared as profit share though I never got this profit share as far as I am aware.

    Now to rub salt in to the wounds my reason for coming on here is HMRC have been investigating me long term and have come up with 2015/16 and NIC payments which is total bull I have paid NICs for that year but they are now seeing if I want to go into a Standstill Agreement, looks like another 8.5K will be owed for this....has anyone else received a Standstill agreement and what are your thoughts...go with it and get it done with or hope they back down...?
    I suspect that as you used your own Limited company and have since accepted liability for the additional tax, that HMRC are now seeing the payments from your scheme provider as income and therefore your Limited company is liable to pay employer NICs

    Leave a comment:


  • piebaps
    replied
    There's a helpful explanation of standstill agreements here https://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/know...ill-agreements

    NB I am not connected to this firm and neither recommend them nor consel against them. They are of course recommending that people seek advice which seems like a wise move.

    Leave a comment:


  • frontmen242
    replied
    Originally posted by SteveMartin View Post
    Another mug...

    Hello everyone, I am also looking for help with Procorre.

    Was with AM/GM under their umbrella firm for 2014-15 before being pressured to use my own business in September 2015, and then finally transferred to Procorre in 2016.
    I too have had HMRC circling first for the 2017-18 and now for the 2018-19 tax years.

    I have had some success with Procorre legal who after months of chasing during 2019, they finally prepared a letter for me to send to HMRC explaining that this is not a disguised remuneration / loan scheme.

    HMRC seem to have cooled on the 17-18 tax year and instead sent me a Merry Christmas letter in December 2020 in the form of a latest investigation of my 2018-19 tax year, I'm just happy I got out towards the end of 2018 and, apart from a small stint on an umbrella at the beginning of 2020, I am back in the relative safety of full-time employment, albeit, my pay has been cut substantially though on a balance, this doesn't seem to be a bad thing.

    Just like most of us caught in the net, I spoke with my AM/GM and Procorre contacts about this scheme to ensure it is legal and my tax obligations were being fulfilled: "Yes, we take the money, pool it together as this is a partnership, deduct your partnership tax at 12%, and your corporation tax at 17%, then send the outstanding back to you. Then when you complete your end of year, we send the amounts we have deducted to HMRC ensuring you are completely covered and all of your obligations have been met."

    My accountant also confirmed that this was completely above board and legal, and was the better system as it meant that I could continue working in IT doing what I'm best at rather than getting bogged down in accountancy, I worry now that the accountant GWAS my well be on Procorre's books.

    And now, I have this letter from Procorre regarding the settlement of my Overdrawn capital account. What the??! What is a capital account, and why is it overdrawn? Why did you only notify me of this 18 months after I stopped contracting? And why are you telling me I need to pay tax on it 18 months after I could have ensured I kept the funds back to cover this?

    I now need to respond to HMRC in the next 30 days (end of Feb 21) regarding their latest disguised remuneration letter, and still do not know what I should be doing about this Overdrawn Capital Account information.

    A familiar story? Can anyone help?
    HI there,

    Your situation sounds very familiar I too had the overdrawn capital account letter, and speaking with various accountants they said I had to declare the £44K even though it was from 2015 covering approx 2 years or so...I too did not know of this bombshell hitting me. In the end I declared it as I had been working as a permie for nearly 2 years at this point no way did I have the coffers but I knew it would be better declaring than ignoring. HMRC have a thing for me and still wont let me close my company, but I am wondering....

    So in the end I had to cough up 13.5K as it is declared as profit share though I never got this profit share as far as I am aware.

    Now to rub salt in to the wounds my reason for coming on here is HMRC have been investigating me long term and have come up with 2015/16 and NIC payments which is total bull I have paid NICs for that year but they are now seeing if I want to go into a Standstill Agreement, looks like another 8.5K will be owed for this....has anyone else received a Standstill agreement and what are your thoughts...go with it and get it done with or hope they back down...?

    Leave a comment:


  • interestedparty
    replied
    Hi, I know this is an old post, but would like to clarify one thing with you:

    They cleared my self assessments from first year with Procorre, 2nd currently being reviewed.

    Does this mean that HMRC accepted your Procorre earnings figures without issuing any further assessments on you, or penalties? Also, can you provide an update on your situation regarding Procorre/HMRC?

    Thanks :-)


    Originally posted by Jammyhl View Post
    Whatsapp Group

    May I have PM access too so I can join the whatsapp group?

    I have had plenty of dealings with Procorre over the last couple years including face to face meetings with the first manically director and Head of Operations and can share these details. I’m also under a prolonged investigation from HMRC. They cleared my self assessments from first year with Procorre, 2nd currently being reviewed.

    Leave a comment:


  • SteveMartin
    replied
    Another mug...

    Hello everyone, I am also looking for help with Procorre.

    Was with AM/GM under their umbrella firm for 2014-15 before being pressured to use my own business in September 2015, and then finally transferred to Procorre in 2016.
    I too have had HMRC circling first for the 2017-18 and now for the 2018-19 tax years.

    I have had some success with Procorre legal who after months of chasing during 2019, they finally prepared a letter for me to send to HMRC explaining that this is not a disguised remuneration / loan scheme.

    HMRC seem to have cooled on the 17-18 tax year and instead sent me a Merry Christmas letter in December 2020 in the form of a latest investigation of my 2018-19 tax year, I'm just happy I got out towards the end of 2018 and, apart from a small stint on an umbrella at the beginning of 2020, I am back in the relative safety of full-time employment, albeit, my pay has been cut substantially though on a balance, this doesn't seem to be a bad thing.

    Just like most of us caught in the net, I spoke with my AM/GM and Procorre contacts about this scheme to ensure it is legal and my tax obligations were being fulfilled: "Yes, we take the money, pool it together as this is a partnership, deduct your partnership tax at 12%, and your corporation tax at 17%, then send the outstanding back to you. Then when you complete your end of year, we send the amounts we have deducted to HMRC ensuring you are completely covered and all of your obligations have been met."

    My accountant also confirmed that this was completely above board and legal, and was the better system as it meant that I could continue working in IT doing what I'm best at rather than getting bogged down in accountancy, I worry now that the accountant GWAS my well be on Procorre's books.

    And now, I have this letter from Procorre regarding the settlement of my Overdrawn capital account. What the??! What is a capital account, and why is it overdrawn? Why did you only notify me of this 18 months after I stopped contracting? And why are you telling me I need to pay tax on it 18 months after I could have ensured I kept the funds back to cover this?

    I now need to respond to HMRC in the next 30 days (end of Feb 21) regarding their latest disguised remuneration letter, and still do not know what I should be doing about this Overdrawn Capital Account information.

    A familiar story? Can anyone help?

    Leave a comment:


  • Iliketax
    replied
    Originally posted by Joby View Post
    It still doesn't answer my fundamental question...what is outstanding?
    This tells you what is "outstanding" (assuming it is in sterling) https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...heme-enquiries

    If you want to find out what a loan is, just click the previous paragraph button.

    Leave a comment:


  • Joby
    replied
    Originally posted by piebaps View Post
    Is an overdraft just a form of loan?
    HMRC seem to believe that to be the case but, having worked in financial services for many years, an overdraft is a form of credit which can be converted to a loan. It still doesn't answer my fundamental question...what is outstanding? The sum total of all the overdrawn capital account payments or the balance of the overdrawn capital account? If there was no expectation that an overdrawn capital account payment was to be repaid then surely it cannot be outstanding? Surely the 'only' thing that is outstanding is the balance of the overdrawn capital account? Views most welcome.

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    Originally posted by legbe01 View Post
    Hi There,
    I am also in the same fix - I was with Glen May and then Procorre from 2012/13 until 2016/2017. I was also assured that there we acting in compliance to legislation but the letters from HMRC would not stop.
    The recent one is still asking me to declare disguised payments or loans. This time, they have identified Glen May as the partnership but not Procorre.
    I had previously forwarded a prepared letter from Glen May where I had stated overdrawn capital accounts for the years. I am now suspecting that I will have to pay tax for this. I am not sure what action to take now, but like everyone here I just want this done and over with.
    So, Admin, could I have PM rights, please? So I can connect with others.
    I will truly appreciate it.
    Who do you propose to talk to? As you really need tax and legal advice from people you find by a google search not strangers on an anonymous internet forum.

    Leave a comment:


  • legbe01
    replied
    Overdrawn Capital Account Scheme (Aston Mae/Glen Mae/Procorre) - Contd

    Originally posted by Smurfburger View Post
    I was with Glen May between 2012/13 - 2016/17. In 2019 I wrote to the compliance team to ask if I needed to declare any amounts as Loan Charge relevant and they said their tax counsel had confirmed that no loan payments were made. As such, there is no need to declare anything.

    I have paid the tax on all of the profit share I have been told to declare in the partnership pages.

    Yesterday, I received a Check of Self Assessment for 2018/19. The letter simply states that they think I should have declared the use of a tax avoidance scheme. It seems to be a fishing type letter. I have replied and asked them to be specific about the scheme(s) to which they refer since I feel my 2018/19 return was correct.

    I would be keen to be added to the WhatsApp group if it is still running.
    Hi There,
    I am also in the same fix - I was with Glen May and then Procorre from 2012/13 until 2016/2017. I was also assured that there we acting in compliance to legislation but the letters from HMRC would not stop.
    The recent one is still asking me to declare disguised payments or loans. This time, they have identified Glen May as the partnership but not Procorre.
    I had previously forwarded a prepared letter from Glen May where I had stated overdrawn capital accounts for the years. I am now suspecting that I will have to pay tax for this. I am not sure what action to take now, but like everyone here I just want this done and over with.
    So, Admin, could I have PM rights, please? So I can connect with others.
    I will truly appreciate it.

    Leave a comment:


  • eek
    replied
    Originally posted by piebaps View Post
    PM is the recognized forum abbreviation for "Private Message" (sometimes also referred to as Direct message or DM). This facility allows you to contact other forum members privately.
    Your rights to do this are granted automatically after a number of posts (I can't remember whether its 5 or 10). If you want PM rights before that, you have to ask admin.
    See also https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...-requests.html

    Leave a comment:


  • piebaps
    replied
    Originally posted by Joby View Post
    ...this PM rights that people seem to be referring to?
    PM is the recognized forum abbreviation for "Private Message" (sometimes also referred to as Direct message or DM). This facility allows you to contact other forum members privately.
    Your rights to do this are granted automatically after a number of posts (I can't remember whether its 5 or 10). If you want PM rights before that, you have to ask admin.

    Leave a comment:

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