Reply to: Did you vote?

[darmstadt]

A Conservative spokesman was asked what he thought of UKIP's success in the local and European elections.

"******* UKIP," he said, "coming around here, stealing our jobs."

[darmstadt]

Sorry just skim read your post. On a hair trigger with those feckwits Speling Bee and Darmstadt around.

Do one. I haven't posted all weekend, just watching Europe turn into a new fascist playground due to voters being ignorant

[Flashman]

Eh, yes, I was agreeing with that.

Sorry just skim read your post. On a hair trigger with those feckwits Speling Bee and Darmstadt around.

[SueEllen]

Zero Liability Euro elections ARE NOT FPTP. They are Proportional representation – closed list

The council elections are FPTP though you vote for 3 different candidates individually.

Anyway in my council UKIP came last or 2nd to last if there were independents.

WE ARE TORY.

Though only because the tory councillors and candidates went door to door and invited everyone to bl**dy public meetings for months to "discuss" local issues. The Labour and Lib Dem local party machines let them down.

I should add I'm biased and if a local councillor solves my minor annoying local issues regardless of party then next time there is an election I vote for them if they are standing, which means often my vote is split amongst parties.

[Zero Liability]

The Lib-dems used to be the biggest opponents of the FPP system, funnily enough.

[d000hg]

Has the system always worked this way where many seats are virtually guaranteed to the same party every time? Or when it was all being set up did this not happen? I'm wondering if it's a flaw built into the system or if the world has moved on and exposed a flaw.

Any history buffs able to answer how and why it all came about?

[Zero Liability]

Do you think that not voting means that you should forfeit your right to be critical of local and European government, then?

No, why would it? You can be critical of a product or service without purchasing them, so why should voting within the confines of the existing system be considered an opt out for any criticism of it? If you sold your vote off, and thereby broke any ties with the government, this would be a legitimate question, but that option is not on the table.

Particularly in first past the post systems, vote or don't vote, if all it buys you is the "right" to be critical of a government, it isn't exactly something to be over the moon about, particularly since what you are voting for is a particular package of policies, that are unlikely to actually be implemented as intended (which is a relief, in some cases), even lied about (Lib-dems, anyone?), and which can and sometimes will be undone by future governments, who will blame the previous one for every problem it now faces. Nevermind that if your vote is on the losing side, you are forced to contend with being governed by a group you do not support in the least. Lobbies and pressure groups have far more resources and vested interest in understanding and controlling this process than the average voter.

Not that proportional representation or direct democracy is hugely better, as I don't see why you would have to vote to have the right to be critical of government policies, when you have to abide them and fund them, like it or not.

All that said, I did vote, and I'm hoping we'll see a Tory/UKIP coalition come general election time, for whatever good that will do...

But not for any pretence of it giving me a "right" to then be critical of whomever takes the reins of local councils/the EU.

It looks like Croydon illustrates the 'Vote UKIP, get Labour' phenomenon.

Ukip vote helps hand Croydon to Labour | Politics | theguardian.com

And also highlights a flaw in the current voting system, and furthermore illustrates just how pointless a vote is. Don't vote for one of the big establishment parties? Then you're casting a vote in favour of whichever one you like least.

[d000hg]

So if you don't want to let either the Tories or Labour in, don't vote UKIP. As it happens, I just vote for whoever I like best even if they stand no chance. But plenty of people think differently.

Some people make it very political. Almost as bad as Eurovision.

[speling bee]

But there will be other areas where people voting UKIP have reduced the labour vote, letting in the tories.

So if you don't want to let either the Tories or Labour in, don't vote UKIP. As it happens, I just vote for whoever I like best even if they stand no chance. But plenty of people think differently.

[KentPhilip]

It looks like Croydon illustrates the 'Vote UKIP, get Labour' phenomenon.

Ukip vote helps hand Croydon to Labour | Politics | theguardian.com

But there will be other areas where people voting UKIP have reduced the labour vote, letting in the tories.

[speling bee]

Conservative & UKIP gain in Slough!

Still labour though, look forward to a council tax rise.

It looks like Croydon illustrates the 'Vote UKIP, get Labour' phenomenon.

Ukip vote helps hand Croydon to Labour | Politics | theguardian.com

[vetran]

Conservative & UKIP gain in Slough!

Still labour though, look forward to a council tax rise.

UKIP fielded too many candidates in Conservative areas they split the vote.

http://www.slough.gov.uk/council/vot...elections.aspx

normally 3 got 500 ish votes each but they only needed a 1000 to topple the labour or tory candidate.

[KentPhilip]

Is there some kind of document that one can read to find out what the UKIP policies are, or at local level is it down to the individual candidate?

Here is the official 2014 UKIP local manifesto pdf doc:

http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net...pdf?1397750311

To answer other points raised, UKIP are in favour of fracking, and against excessive home building on green-field sites (preferring brown-field development)

[DodgyAgent]

Even if there was, there would be no reason to suppose that it would have any long-term validity: BBC News - Nigel Farage: 2010 UKIP manifesto was 'drivel'

You could apply that to any manifesto

[NickFitz]

Is there some kind of document that one can read to find out what the UKIP policies are

Even if there was, there would be no reason to suppose that it would have any long-term validity: BBC News - Nigel Farage: 2010 UKIP manifesto was 'drivel'