Reply to: I am not cut out to be a contractor!

[MyUserName]

Typical, have signed the contract for the new permie place and one I applied for previously have come back and offered an interview - full time working from home couple of grand every other year to kit my home dev area out etc. A really sweet deal ... why couldn't they have come back sooner?!?!?!

[TheFaQQer]

That would be a laugh but they do not do development there, they just use the product and have several experts on it who have been doing it longer than me.

They might be able to offer a FTC or a decent contract to have someone who has been on the inside and can provide some insight that their guys can't.

I've done the move from one contract to another where I went from producer to consumer, which was brilliant

[MyUserName]

You might be better off approaching this 'major client' and making them an offer.

That would be a laugh but they do not do development there, they just use the product and have several experts on it who have been doing it longer than me.

[ChimpMaster]

What fun!

Currently client had 2 of us and our manager working on the company cash cow. They hired a new permie to replace me and have, in the opinion of all of us on the team, too much work to do in the time given for 2 engineers and the manager.

Basically a major client essentially handed us a blank check because they needed to burn a lot of their budget.

The other guy I worked with (company dinosaur of about 20 years, very clever guy too) is going to resign in a month or two and go contracting ... hence at that point the product that makes most of the money for the client will have the manager and one guy who has been there less than 6 months to complete on schedule several hundred thousand pounds worth of work ... I might leave my phone number in case they want to make me an offer.

You might be better off approaching this 'major client' and making them an offer.

[MyUserName]

What fun!

Currently client had 2 of us and our manager working on the company cash cow. They hired a new permie to replace me and have, in the opinion of all of us on the team, too much work to do in the time given for 2 engineers and the manager.

Basically a major client essentially handed us a blank check because they needed to burn a lot of their budget.

The other guy I worked with (company dinosaur of about 20 years, very clever guy too) is going to resign in a month or two and go contracting ... hence at that point the product that makes most of the money for the client will have the manager and one guy who has been there less than 6 months to complete on schedule several hundred thousand pounds worth of work ... I might leave my phone number in case they want to make me an offer.

[PeteB17]

Been contracting for 18 years whilst the kids grew up. You should plan to work for 9 months out of 12 and bank anything else above that in your war chest. In my opinion you must be mad to think about being part of that permie back stabbing politics - take the money treat the family and laugh all the way to the bank. With the 3 months off every year if you are lucky enough to get that time, enjoy your family life in the way that permies can only dream of. Me I only got 3 months off twice in 18 years.

[vetran]

Well that makes things easy, current client does not want to hire me.

Hence decision made ... other than a previous client who might be interested in hiring me ... other than that decision made!

new custom Title time?

MUN is a Permie Slave.

congratulations. lets hope its enjoyable, my job mostly is.

[TheFaQQer]

Well that makes things easy, current client does not want to hire me.

Hence decision made ... other than a previous client who might be interested in hiring me ... other than that decision made!

Good luck with the other one(s)

[MyUserName]

Well that makes things easy, current client does not want to hire me.

Hence decision made ... other than a previous client who might be interested in hiring me ... other than that decision made!

[speling bee]

So you get the info on history, understand the risk, put a value to the risk adjusted bonus and make a judgment. As it is, I would value the bonus as between £0 and £2,000 p.a.

[MyUserName]

If they promise a 10% bonus and then don't pay it out, you'll probably leave, so they're asking you to make your decision not based on a bonus. But what they're saying is there might be a bonus. So it is a better offer than an equivalent permie job on 60 grand without a bonus, but not equivalent to a permie job that pays more.

Actually sounds to me like "honest Joe", just putting their cards on the table,.

Yeah this is one possibility that occurred to me but I did not know if I was just being naïve in thinking that!

[BlasterBates]

It was paid out for the last 3 years but wasn't paid out before so they're being a bit cagey.

If they promise a 10% bonus and then don't pay it out, you'll probably leave, so they're asking you to make your decision not based on a bonus. But what they're saying is there might be a bonus. So it is a better offer than an equivalent permie job on 60 grand without a bonus, but not equivalent to a permie job that pays more.

Actually sounds to me like "honest Joe", just putting their cards on the table. By not making any promises and leaving only with the 60 grand to make your decision, means that any bonus will be viewed by you as a bonus. I suspect they're a bit fed up of employees moaning about the bonus, because they see it as a part of their salary, when a bonus should be a viewed as a bonus i.e. something that might or might not be paid out, and therefore to be appreciated when it's paid out.

[VectraMan]

Isn't a bonus like, well, a bonus. A guaranteed bonus isn't a bonus, that's called salary. Or is it just me that thinks that way?

My last permie job after finishing a big project I got a bonus of about a month's salary. This was in my final pay packet having resigned and already left the company. So that was good of them.

[MyUserName]

All they have said is that it is related to company performance and has been paid out for the passed 3 years.

Other than that I have no idea about any of it!

[vetran]

Ask:

How much of the bonus is company (or team) and how much individual based?

What was the company based bonus over last three years?
What % of individuals got individual based bonus?
What was the median bonus for individuals that did get individual bonus?

If they won't answer, assume you'll get zero.

+1

used to be personally based I always got it (was a challenge to finish everything sometimes) and it was a substantial part of Salary. a few years ago they made it all EMEA and of course we have never seen it since.

not sure why if they think you are worth £60K you can't understand Bonus is on top of your salary and not guaranteed. Typical management think

do they want to you sell you the job or not?