Reply to: Professionalism II

[vetran]

Well it may or may not be the case. But it's the only reason I can think of that someone wouldn't say "hold on guys... it'll be cheaper and easier to just wait until each contract expires individually" like dhoog suggested.

With that being said, judging by the ****tards I'm working with at the moment I guess I'm having hight expectations when it comes to logic & common sense.

then they wouldn't get their bonus for cutting contractor costs in one stroke!

[vetran]

there is a sort of attitude to suppliers of 'well they can suffer if they want OUR business' when they talk about them in larger companies.

Unfortunately its a problem if you only have a single customer. I have frequently seen large companies try to screw suppliers down to below cost price, only a few times have I seen the suppliers manage the customer out after this happened.

The prestige of having a Fortune 500 company as a customer seems to mean more than losing money to some firms or worse they have no other customers.

[SpontaneousOrder]

Corporates are not like that. Their finance people have done a simple calculation and worked out it will save £xx s. tesco do the same to their suppliers (as do many other corporates) instead they demand refunds on sales made.

It is nothing personal

Well it may or may not be the case. But it's the only reason I can think of that someone wouldn't say "hold on guys... it'll be cheaper and easier to just wait until each contract expires individually" like dhoog suggested.

With that being said, judging by the ****tards I'm working with at the moment I guess I'm having hight expectations when it comes to logic & common sense.

[KentPhilip]

Corporates are not like that. Their finance people have done a simple calculation and worked out it will save £xx s. tesco do the same to their suppliers (as do many other corporates) instead they demand refunds on sales made.

It is nothing personal

I'm not sure about that.
3 years ago I was working for a hedge fund and they stuck a 10% cut on all of the contractors. I walked. The trouble was the contractor they took on to replace me cost them more, so the above plan backfired somewhat.
But the point is that all the other contractors saw that I walked and that they did not give in. Thus intimidating the other contractors into thinking that the client would not back down even if you were important to the project.

[DodgyAgent]

I think it's an intimidation tactic. A sweeping 10% cut makes you think they're ruthless and don't give a feck and negotiation isn't an option.

Corporates are not like that. Their finance people have done a simple calculation and worked out it will save £xx s. tesco do the same to their suppliers (as do many other corporates) instead they demand refunds on sales made.

It is nothing personal

[eek]

What's that? You would check your notice period for potentially leaving mid contract?

Yes if the initial contract terms are changed mid contract I would have no problems doing the same to them.

However, unlike others on this site, if I start a contract and nothing changes during the contract I will stay until the end of the contract.

But as I've stated numerous times before, my personal opinion on the business practices of Barclays and RBS are such that I would require a significant premium before considering working with them.

[SpontaneousOrder]

WVS.

It also seems a bit pointless doing it mid-contract for everyone at once. Doesn't it introduce a lot of work for the client? Why not simply wait until each contractor is due renewal?

A flat 10% also seems silly because they probably are paying contractors all different rates. Why don't they establish a ratecard what they are prepared to pay for each type of work, and then alter the ratecard by 10%?

I think it's an intimidation tactic. A sweeping 10% cut makes you think they're ruthless and don't give a feck and negotiation isn't an option.

[NorthWestPerm2Contr]

Professionalism is a two way thing. Once one side stops playing fair, its perfectly acceptable doing the same in reverse.

Personally I would be walking, at the very least I would be checking my notice period to ensure its short enough to allow me to find something and then walk.

And the next time I was approached to work there I would be using my unprofessional banking market rate (current market rate + 25% to offset the risk of them doing it in the future).

What's that? You would check your notice period for potentially leaving mid contract?

[d000hg]

I think the key point is 'mid contract'.

If they offered an extension at a lower rate then it might be professional.

If you asked for a rate rise mid contract that might be seen as unprofessional.

Fair point

WVS.

It also seems a bit pointless doing it mid-contract for everyone at once. Doesn't it introduce a lot of work for the client? Why not simply wait until each contractor is due renewal?

A flat 10% also seems silly because they probably are paying contractors all different rates. Why don't they establish a ratecard what they are prepared to pay for each type of work, and then alter the ratecard by 10%?

[DodgyAgent]

I think the key point is 'mid contract'.

If they offered an extension at a lower rate then it might be professional.

If you asked for a rate rise mid contract that might be seen as unprofessional.

Fair point

[SaltyLevels]

Seems a little extreme to shut down your company just so that you can leave a contract.

I was being facetious, sorry.

My view is you say yes or no and go from there; we're both businesses.

[eek]

and they're not afraid of cutting rates mid contract when the market allows them to.

I can't comment. The few times I've worked with Wood group its been a pleasant experience...

[Fred Bloggs]

That is not correct. Engineering companies such as Bechtel, Wood Group, Fluor often work on a T&M basis on margins set by their clients.

and they're not afraid of cutting rates mid contract when the market allows them to.

[vetran]

What goes up must come down. You lot make me laugh. You think nothing of asking for a "rate rise" and clients rarely regard you doing so as unprofessional. So what is unprofessional about them imposing a rate reduction? If you don't like it walk - don't whine. I am sure they can get some cheap Indian resource to replace you.

I think the key point is 'mid contract'.

If they offered an extension at a lower rate then it might be professional.

If you asked for a rate rise mid contract that might be seen as unprofessional.

[Mich the Tester]

That is not correct. Engineering companies such as Bechtel, Wood Group, Fluor often work on a T&M basis on margins set by their clients.

Well not the engineering companies here in Brabant.


I did also point out; 'From my own experience (which might not reflect the experience of others)', because I assume other posters are functionally literate.