Reply to: The commercialisation of Christmas

[SpontaneousOrder]

I am disgusted by the ever increasing commercialisation of Christmas. It is supposed to be a celebration of the birth of Jesus, the son of GOD. Not some cheap event to be cashed-in on to the max. There is a reason why Jesus threw the money-lenders out of the temple. Think about that...

So we're supposed to celebrate the idea that we were all guilty of sin before we were even born, and that god, who burdened us with that sin (which doesn't even make sense, but whatever...) had a child born which he then made suffer horribly to save us from our unearned, 'original' sin?

One of these reasons to celebrate chistmas actually is disgusting. Hint: it's yours!

[greenlake]

I am disgusted by the ever increasing commercialisation of Christmas. It is supposed to be a celebration of the birth of Jesus, the son of GOD. Not some cheap event to be cashed-in on to the max. There is a reason why Jesus threw the money-lenders out of the temple. Think about that...

A Festivus for the rest of us....



Festivus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Mich the Tester]

I blame the Septics for that, and they aren't exactly lefties for the most part.

Well no, they think they aren't, but some of their biggest businesses seem to be run according to the dictats of some USSR central planning committee. But then you can blame the Septics for USSR planning committees, because Lenin was a big fan of Frederick W. Taylor.

[MyUserName]

As an atheist who loves Christmas I can confirm that I don't give two hoots on the origin or whether it is technically pagan or Christian or anything else.

Even if someone proved conclusively one way or the other right now nothing would change about what we do. If it is proved to pagan Christians will carry on as if it had not been and if it were proved to Christian pagans would carry on as it had not been.

A small minority in each might change some of their views even if they did not change what they actually do but that is going to have very little impact on anything.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Are we still allowed to say 'Happy Christmas'? I thought the lefties had outlawed that as it's an insult to other faiths and religions, I thought you had to say 'Happy Holidays' now :-()

I blame the Septics for that, and they aren't exactly lefties for the most part.

[d000hg]

I always thought that Constantine I adopted the Sol Invictus holiday as it was a way of getting the crowds in on a day they were already celebrating

I think you're agreeing with me... that's a Roman holiday so it's not like English people can complain Christians came and took over one of our holidays...

[Old Greg]

Not actually true. It simply overlaps with the timing of an existing festival celebrated in (IIRC) the Roman Empire. I don't think the majority of countries now celebrating Christmas on the 25th actually observed that particular festival...

I always thought that Constantine I adopted the Sol Invictus holiday as it was a way of getting the crowds in on a day they were already celebrating. Similar to how many churches were built on existing non-Christian worship sites.

[Old Greg]

Are we still allowed to say 'Happy Christmas'? I thought the lefties had outlawed that as it's an insult to other faiths and religions, I thought you had to say 'Happy Holidays' now :-()

No, that's an invention by righties to help them to feel victimised. At the end of the little 'un's school Bollyhem multicultural celebration play of the festive season all the kids shouted 'Merry Christmas'. No offence taken by anyone.

[d000hg]

WHS

Not actually true. It simply overlaps with the timing of an existing festival celebrated in (IIRC) the Roman Empire. I don't think the majority of countries now celebrating Christmas on the 25th actually observed that particular festival...

[NotAllThere]

What's to stop anyone celebrating Christmas in whatever way they they wish? Usual problem with religious sorts, they think their religious freedom involves telling everyone else what they should do. ...

That's a bit of a non-sequitor. Most of the bah-humbug is coming from the non-religious. The god botherers on this forum appear to be quite happy with anyone celebrating Christmas any way you like. I know I am.

FWIW, I think many of the discrimination cases are rather daft. Society changes - fit in with it. It's not as though we live in countries where there's a real risk of gun-men invading the local carol service and spraying the congregation with bullets.

[Ticktock]

Rubbish - it's a pagan festival celebrated long before Jesus was invented

WHS

Christmas? No it's not. It's a Christian festival. The date may coincide with other religious festivals, and some traditions from older festivals may have been adopted, but that doesn't mean they're the same thing.
Even the fact that the dates are very similar doesn't necessarily mean that one was intended to replace another.

I know when I was at school (a Catholic school, BTW) it was taught that the date was chosen to coincide with existing festivals. This was blamed on the Romans (what have they ever done for us?), after the empire officially adopted Christianity, trying to make its acceptance easier to followers of earlier religions, including the Roman pantheon. This may be true.

However, the festival celebrating the birth of Jesus is held on December 25th, 9 months after the festival celebrating Mary being told that she would give birth to Jesus - the Annunciation, held on on March 25th.
The date of the Annunciation being March 25th was proposed back in the 2nd century - about 200 years before the Roman Empire adopted Christianity, and 100 years before they stopped persecuting Christians.

In fact, I just ran a quick search and found this site, where the author gives a quick run down of some of the reasons why the date may have been chosen, and possible relationships to other festivals:

Why is Christmas Celebrated on December 25?

[Mich the Tester]

Are we still allowed to say 'Happy Christmas'?

No. It's 'Merry Christmas'.

[darmstadt]

Are we still allowed to say 'Happy Christmas'? I thought the lefties had outlawed that as it's an insult to other faiths and religions, I thought you had to say 'Happy Holidays' now :-()

[scooterscot]

Rubbish - it's a pagan festival celebrated long before Jesus was invented

WHS

[xoggoth]

What's to stop anyone celebrating Christmas in whatever way they they wish? Usual problem with religious sorts, they think their religious freedom involves telling everyone else what they should do.

Look at religious "discrimination" cases and they usually involve the religious being prevented from discriminating against or imposing on others. Refusing B&B accommodation to gays, insisting on prayers at public meetings, requiring time off work for prayers or religious occasions, refusing to do a job they are paid for, such as conducting civil ceremonies or providing counselling for gays or serving alcohol in police cafes at the expense of so their employers or colleagues.

Believe whatever drivel you like but you should bear all the costs for your faith, not expect others to.