Reply to: Give a 'hoodie' a job, says Employment Minister Grayling

[vetran]

Its only murder when you have control over your actions. In the Army you don't so its not a sensible comparison. By all means blame the ones who start liking it or fall below the standard expected of any honourable military officer.

If you want murderers then go after the ones who started the war. Get B'liar & Bush in the court, the Rank and file are just following orders.

National service can be divorced from active duty, plenty of things NS guys can do without picking up a gun.

EO was trying to be humour-us - he failed. Even Python would have difficulty making such things funny if it were a current conflict.

As before, why train new dubious talent when you have proven or at least attractive talent in front of you? Most companies aren't charities (used to be but they aren't any more can't afford to be).

[AtW]

As evidenced by comparing us with the USA, which is unburdened by nanny state ideas and as we all know, doesn't have hoodies at all.

Certainly not in states like Virginia where it's allowed to carry handguns openly

[AtW]

I dont. I am talking about doing it myself. Neighbourhood watch is one example, and we all take it in turns to pick up litter in the street.

Neighbourhood was voluntary from start, what this "Big Society" thing does is basically cutting Govt expenditure and expecting sacked people who did those jobs to suddenly do them for free. Well they need to earn money somehow, it's a bit difficult to do full time unpaid charity work.

"Big Society" is a con.

[d000hg]

This whole sorry situation is the consequence of the overbearing nanny state. In close communities miscreants would have been sorted out by the local communities by being made to work (which is what the "big society" is trying to return us to). However because we have this huge welfare state that is supposed to take responsibility for the social ills of society (most of which it creates by delivering appalling standards of education and care) no one has any sense of social/community responsibility.

As evidenced by comparing us with the USA, which is unburdened by nanny state ideas and as we all know, doesn't have hoodies at all.

[EternalOptimist]

[EternalOptimist]

wibble wibble wibble

do you have fish swimming around you with little lights on their 'eads ?

[wim121]

I wonder if this twit Grayling would consider taking on a hoodie as a butler or chauffeur.

I sure they have enough experience from joyriding

[wim121]

Not quite sure you have thought this through. Many people are disagreeing with an employment minister suggesting when employers are presented with a clean cut, hard working employee from abroad and a disaffected youth who doesn't present themselves well they should pick the home grown high risk strategy out of compassion when the employers are seriously trying to keep faithful employees in work. That is foolish in a number of ways.

Indeed, that is the real issue.

If the government removed the alternative rather than flooding the market with cheap highly qualified alternatives employers wouldn't have a choice but to choose home grown.

If the government educated the hoodies and instilled a work ethic in them during the legally enforced schooling period while they have them at their mercy.

If the Government removed the cushy hammock of benefits and made being unemployed uncomfortable the young are less likely to present themselves as hoodies at least at work.

If the government subsidised the businesses to act as social workers and supported them by removing their ability to fire them at the drop of a hat without facing spurious legal proceedings then business may be willing to take a chance. See the Poundland flouncer & the Tesco indignation killing the work experience scheme.

Completely agree. We need jobs for our citizens first before foreigners. The welfare state encourages sloth and is a cancer on the country.

now Inexperienced?

So it would seem. Some don't realise how a great colleague/employer can turn a no hoper around in to a functional part of the workplace.

Some might suggest bringing back more apprenticeships for ambition and a sense of pride.

This whole sorry situation is the consequence of the overbearing nanny state. In close communities miscreants would have been sorted out by the local communities by being made to work (which is what the "big society" is trying to return us to). However because we have this huge welfare state that is supposed to take responsibility for the social ills of society (most of which it creates by delivering appalling standards of education and care) no one has any sense of social/community responsibility.

+1

Quite apart from your ridiculous assertion that equates killings in war with murder, why shouldnt all young people do community service for a year instead of National service.

How is it ridiculous?

War is fighting fascism like in WWII and attacks from a heinous asian society that barbarically tortured thousands in an unprovoked attack.

War is not invading a country because the previous leader threatened the petro dollar and gunning down civilians on their way to pray. That is not war, that is murder.

I agree with community service though. Instead of making it like a prison punishment though, perhaps organise them to build community rejuvenation projects. It will save labour costs and make them feel like an integral part of their community.

Where do these "excellent mentors" come from?
So lead by example and employ one of them. why is it we are always telling other people what to do?

I will do if/when I employ my own people.

It's only murder if they dont want it. but they're asking for it. you can tell by the way they dress
they are laughing at us. you want it, come and have some
bastids

You obviously are taking the mick or have no idea about the situation out there.

No civilian is "asking for it". You need to look up the definition of a civilian and a citizen.

I'm all for national service - I had a terrible childhood involving all manner of nastiness and I was a law breaking, mental mess when I was 15.

The army instilled self worth , self value and self belief in me - in just a few months. I was absolutely devastated when I was discharged (underweight) .

I think that its a good alternative to doing nothing and being marketed to all day , de-sensitised by the internet to crime, porn, and anything else.......

My 2 cents, but the army saved my life, from being dead or locked up by now IMHO.

That was you though.

The discipline is great for some, I will agree with that.

But for those with morality or in need of some, it can be damaging.

[OwlHoot]

I wonder if this twit Grayling would consider taking on a hoodie as a butler or chauffeur.

[Scoobos]

Why shouldnt we do it for free? If there were no welfare state and no charities we would have to sort out our social problems ourselves. In poor countries the aged live with their families for the rest of their lives. we dont we shove them off into a care home instead

I kind of agree , having lived in many of these "poor" countries I actually think they are "rich" .

It might sound cheesy but you cant put a price on happiness and a tight family and feeling loved and needed every day go quite some way to it.

That said, I disagree that if you take the welfare state away you sort the issues, you don't - look at the US, Brazil, Thailand and many more to see how quickly it turns into crime and social disfunction.

Seeing blind people beg in the streets is not acceptable imo, or the woman carrying the 6 week baby that's already dead - begging to be given money that she'll spend on her self - because the natural basic instinct is for her own survival no one elses. I really believe the addage that you can judge a political methodology on how the country treats its weakest members.

Creating an "underclass" was an unintentional masterstroke by the elite IMHO.

Right i'm off to go spread the red <just kidding>

[Scoobos]

i agree to some extent. my only issue with national service though is the morality of murdering people for a job.

I'm all for national service - I had a terrible childhood involving all manner of nastiness and I was a law breaking, mental mess when I was 15.

The army instilled self worth , self value and self belief in me - in just a few months. I was absolutely devastated when I was discharged (underweight) .

I think that its a good alternative to doing nothing and being marketed to all day , de-sensitised by the internet to crime, porn, and anything else.......

My 2 cents, but the army saved my life, from being dead or locked up by now IMHO.

[DodgyAgent]

Why do you expect others to work for free doing a pretty hard job?

I dont. I am talking about doing it myself. Neighbourhood watch is one example, and we all take it in turns to pick up litter in the street.

[AtW]

Why shouldnt we do it for free?

Why do you expect others to work for free doing a pretty hard job?

[EternalOptimist]

i agree to some extent. my only issue with national service though is the morality of murdering people for a job.

It's only murder if they dont want it. but they're asking for it. you can tell by the way they dress
they are laughing at us. you want it, come and have some
bastids

dagger dagger dagger dagger dagger

[DodgyAgent]

Big Society is a load of bulltulip - the base premise of it is to cut costs on a local level and expect people to do charity work for free.

Needless to say it won't work.

Why shouldnt we do it for free? If there were no welfare state and no charities we would have to sort out our social problems ourselves. In poor countries the aged live with their families for the rest of their lives. we dont we shove them off into a care home instead