Reply to: Fraudulent Timesheet – Help and advice required.

[KimberleyChris]

Also..

IF the OP is 'Bob', then the customer is probably in on it too, and their customer, and their customer.

It's pretty endemic over there by all accounts.

[minsky1]

I think the OP is bobshawadiwadi's sockie.

[pmeswani]

It's even more ridiculous than that.
You are sat at your desk for 40 hours in the week. There is nothing to do.
But the pm will keep you on indefinately , provided you give him a bung.

and somehow having a petrol receipt will protect you in court.

You have a fair point.

[EternalOptimist]

Another thing, how will you prove the event logs came from that system, especially if the given system is subsequently wiped clean and rebuilt for reuse? I can easily build a system and call it by the same system at work, change the clock time and clear the event logs and then log on, do a few things, log off, change the time, log on, delete individual event logs, etc. etc. Getting print screens of event logs is not forensically safe and will probably be thrown out of court, unless you have the actual event log exported and with the appropriate MD5 Hash along with a report from a SIEM / Log management system, which is also supplimented with a MD5 Hash. It is unlikely you will get the latter if you get frog marched out the building.

It's even more ridiculous than that.
You are sat at your desk for 40 hours in the week. There is nothing to do.
But the pm will keep you on indefinately , provided you give him a bung.

and somehow having a petrol receipt will protect you in court.

[pmeswani]

Hate to say this, but a signed timesheet is a legally binding document between the Contractor, Client and the agency. If the contractor raises an invoice against the signed timesheet and the client pays the invoice, then that within itself is evidence that the client is wholey satisfied that the work completed is to their satisfaction.

Taking screenshots of Event logs is not evidence within itself as one can inject fake event logs in order to give the illusion that something has taken place. It's a non starter and probably won't stand up in court. If you believe Event Logs will stand up in court, good luck to you, but I wouldn't suggest a career as a digital forensics officer for you.

Another thing, how will you prove the event logs came from that system, especially if the given system is subsequently wiped clean and rebuilt for reuse? I can easily build a system and call it by the same system at work, change the clock time and clear the event logs and then log on, do a few things, log off, change the time, log on, delete individual event logs, etc. etc. Getting print screens of event logs is not forensically safe and will probably be thrown out of court, unless you have the actual event log exported and with the appropriate MD5 Hash along with a report from a SIEM / Log management system, which is also supplimented with a MD5 Hash. It is unlikely you will get the latter if you get frog marched out the building.

[NotAllThere]

...I have been approached once in my time as a contractor. I put down my butty, looked him in the eye and said 'no, I dont think so' put my coat on and walked out. I didnt even log off.

You're making it up. No way would you have walked out without your butty.

[pmeswani]

What are you banging on about? Try to make some sense.

All Im saying is, time sheets are not proof enough. If you know other people fiddle their sheets and it is so widespread that the tulip could hit the fan, protect yourself for minimal further work by keeping supporting evidence to back up the facts that you havent fiddled your hours.

In a company with hundreds fiddling their hours, how does anyone investigating know you've been completely honest based soley on your timesheets only.

Quite simple really. We arent talking about hollywood or any other fantasy in your head, we're talking about covering your own arse. I can tell you've never been arrested or questioned because saying "Im telling you the truth" doesnt work.

Hate to say this, but a signed timesheet is a legally binding document between the Contractor, Client and the agency. If the contractor raises an invoice against the signed timesheet and the client pays the invoice, then that within itself is evidence that the client is wholey satisfied that the work completed is to their satisfaction.

Taking screenshots of Event logs is not evidence within itself as one can inject fake event logs in order to give the illusion that something has taken place. It's a non starter and probably won't stand up in court. If you believe Event Logs will stand up in court, good luck to you, but I wouldn't suggest a career as a digital forensics officer for you.

[cojak]

Just to give you the conclusion to this sorry tale.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...got-fired.html

[Lockhouse]

Assuming the post is genuine, if you do nothing then you are breaking the law by assisting in this fraud. Doing nothing is assisting.

[ChimpMaster]

Interesting thread because it brings up images of stack 'em high pile 'em deep charge 'em cheap Indian consultancies.

Saj is clearly Bob and is one of many such Bobs employed by these consultancies. Bob is also easier to manipulate by the Indian consultancy due to cultural rules which put managers up on pedestals and the younger technical lot down on the untouchables level.

I've seen Bobs get slapped by Management Bobs in the past, I mean proper slapped, not your pansy Western type slap! Coercing lowly contractor Bob into an act of fraud is not at all difficult to do for Management Bob, and I bet it happens on a large scale. Do you think these consultancies report accurate timesheets for their own consultants - especially those offshore, of whom the client has no visibility?

[Scrag Meister]

If you're in finance surely you did the compliance training where every little thing that seems slightly dubious, and this is more than slightly dubious, is expected to be reported. You should have escalated this as soon as you were approached.

If you have really gone for this scam you are in deep tulip.

You deserve whatever you get.

[EternalOptimist]

That was called an example to illustrate a point.

I recommend that you go and practice your limited skills with an asylum seeker.

Please learn how to use the English language before opening your filthy trap in future.

my advice to the op is simple. Dont get involved. Dont do it.

I do NOT recommend making screenshots of your pc every 5 minutes just in case someone in the world works a fiddle at some indeterminate time in the future, I do NOT recommend keeping petrol receipts as some sort of insurance policy that proves you were at a petrol station at some specific time.

I would also say to the OP that it is not widespread, in my experience, but it does happen.
I hope you get it sorted, and find peace.

[wim121]

the opening poster was one amongst 299 ?

strange. It sounded like one amongst one to me.

maybe I need to learn to read as well as you do


please engage brain before opening gob in future

That was called an example to illustrate a point.

I recommend that you go and practice your limited skills with an asylum seeker.

Please learn how to use the English language before opening your filthy trap in future.

[EternalOptimist]

If you work among 299 other colleagues and 290 of them have lied about times on their signed off hours, a detective doesnt need to set in stone your guilt at all.

In such a situation, one has to prove their innocence. If they have hard evidence on 290 and timesheets that seem dodgy for the other 10, then that would be enough evidence for them to prosecute.

You really are a fool and have no knowledge of the legal system. Innocent before guilty is an outmoded concept. The prosecution doesnt even have to prove you did something, just beyond reasonable doubt. A timesheet on it's own, casts little doubt when the problem is so widespread.

You really have a lot to learn about life.











Stop being a and learn to read.

the opening poster was one amongst 299 ?

strange. It sounded like one amongst one to me.

maybe I need to learn to read as well as you do


please engage brain before opening gob in future

[wim121]

If someone offers to sign off a time sheet in return for a kick back, just say NO. simple

Ummmm duhhh ! I never debated that at all, so why is captain obvious making an appearance?