Reply to: Hi-de-Hi!

[woody1]

I'd be ok with it flipping back to the Tories in 29 but can't see it happening. Starmer's govt may not be popular but the Tories aren't even ahead of Labour in the polls.

If Tory support doesn't pick up in the next year or so, I wonder if they'll have the knives out for Badenoch before the GE.

[malvolio]

Full Fact has done a bit of work on tracking delivery against Labour's election manifesto

https://fullfact.org/politics/keir-s...nment-tracker/

I haven't read it, can't comment on whose narrative it supports. However, I do find that their general fact checking overall is quite good and they occasionally manage to get MP's to correct the record when they spout made up nonsense.

Just list the successes, all 24 of them out of 92. Then look at how many are actually taking us forward economically. Also quite a few are actually about establishing or removing stuff, not delivery of outcomes.

But to be fair, I suspect most governments have a similar record at half time,

[ladymuck]

Full Fact has done a bit of work on tracking delivery against Labour's election manifesto

https://fullfact.org/politics/keir-s...nment-tracker/

I haven't read it, can't comment on whose narrative it supports. However, I do find that their general fact checking overall is quite good and they occasionally manage to get MP's to correct the record when they spout made up nonsense.

[malvolio]

I literally would've put money on you responding with something like this, mal

I can't see myself voting for the Tories while Badenoch is leading and Mel Stride is shadow chancellor. Badenoch just isn't very well suited for leadership IMHO - the pantomime of PMQs is totally unimportant in that regard. She's notorious for being pig-headed and combative, and that doesn't stem from confidence, more like fear. Mel Stride would be more of the same w/r to small business.

Tbh, I would need to swallow some vomit to vote for the Tories in any circumstances, given their medium-term history.

Sigh, Binface is looking increasingly tempting

Well yes, I do agree to some extent. We are going to be presented with a list of political pygmies when we really need some statesmen with a proper vision of the way forward. It is telling that with over 400 MPs, Labour have to import a serial failure to take over as PM. And the popular vote is either going to give us a party with currently 7 deeply unimpressive MPs or some sort of cobbled together coalition.

Still, it's fun winding up opposition, isn't it.

[WTFH]

Welfare spending in 1980 was approx 10% of GDP. Welfare spending in 2026 is approx 10% of GDP. Tricky thing, facts.

Net migration is down, so they no longer wang on about that, but say "it's the wrong kind of down"

Number of asylum seekers in hotels is way down, so now they struggle to find places for their violent protests. (even though Five Homes promised that his party would build more asylum hotels in constituencies that didn't vote for his Ltd)

But remember, a hobby website where it links to the sources of its information is "unreliable", but a claim by Mal must be 100% true even without evidence.

[jamesbrown]

To be fair, Badenoch has laid out a fairly sensible vision of her likely manifesto, but I do wish some of her shadows were more obvious. It does amuse me that people see "the Tories" as a brand; it's becoming clear that what they are now under her leadership is nothing like what we suffered under Cameron/May/Johnson/Truss/Sunak - and most of the real trouble makers are now in Reform (and a couple are asking about coming back...)

Farage has shot his bolt, and without him Reform are just another bunch of amateurs. You can build a football team around a Harry Kane, but a political party, much less a government, needs a rather wider pool of talent.

What scares me though is people voting on the basis of "Anybody but..." with very little regard to what they are actually voting for. How many people do you know of that think Labour have held to their manifesto promises, even before the coronation of Andy Pandy?

I literally would've put money on you responding with something like this, mal

I can't see myself voting for the Tories while Badenoch is leading and Mel Stride is shadow chancellor. Badenoch just isn't very well suited for leadership IMHO - the pantomime of PMQs is totally unimportant in that regard. She's notorious for being pig-headed and combative, and that doesn't stem from confidence, more like fear. Mel Stride would be more of the same w/r to small business.

Tbh, I would need to swallow some vomit to vote for the Tories in any circumstances, given their medium-term history.

Sigh, Binface is looking increasingly tempting

[TestMangler]

It also depends which you think represent progress towards building the economy and which are union inspired regressions to the 70s....

Tax receipts of £331bn vs welfare costs of £333bn are factual. So is spending £100bn a year in loan intetest, funded by - guess what - more borrowing.

Tricky things, facts.

Welfare spending in 1980 was approx 10% of GDP. Welfare spending in 2026 is approx 10% of GDP. Tricky thing, facts.

[malvolio]

I guess if the facts don’t suit your narrative, you’ll claim they’re unreliable.

It also depends which you think represent progress towards building the economy and which are union inspired regressions to the 70s....

Tax receipts of £331bn vs welfare costs of £333bn are factual. So is spending £100bn a year in loan intetest, funded by - guess what - more borrowing.

Tricky things, facts.

[WTFH]

Fair enough. Not that many actually delivered, and some of those are open to interpretation. For one example, net immigration is down but that is as much about increaed emigration as anything. Similary NHS queues are down because 600k appointments have cancelled and people, such as my other half, are on a waiting list for the waiting list...

Also, how much trust do you place in a self-proclaimed hobby website....

I guess if the facts don’t suit your narrative, you’ll claim they’re unreliable.

[malvolio]

https://pledgeprogress.co.uk

Fair enough. Not that many actually delivered, and some of those are open to interpretation. For one example, net immigration is down but that is as much about increaed emigration as anything. Similary NHS queues are down because 600k appointments have cancelled and people, such as my other half, are on a waiting list for the waiting list...

Also, how much trust do you place in a self-proclaimed hobby website....

[WTFH]

How many people do you know of that think Labour have held to their manifesto promises, even before the coronation of Andy Pandy?

https://pledgeprogress.co.uk

[malvolio]

I would like to see a right-of-centre party that is not the Tory party (who can feck right off) with a credible plan for gov't, but the Farage clownshoe is definitely not that thing, just as the Polanski clownshoe is not that thing for lefties. Farage is a good campaigner, but just doesn't have the judgement, as this episode reveals, and the Trumpian style BS that is creeping into our politics won't attract British voters, regardless of what the polls currently say (people really only pay attention near to elections - at this stage, polls are only good for sticking two fingers up). This is a total lose-lose for Farage, although I expect he will probably trounce Binface (would be hilarious if he didn't, I agree). Question is what comes after Reform and will it be vaguely credible - again, the Tories can feck right off - I am not tremendously hopeful once the Burnham car crash inevitably ensues.

To be fair, Badenoch has laid out a fairly sensible vision of her likely manifesto, but I do wish some of her shadows were more obvious. It does amuse me that people see "the Tories" as a brand; it's becoming clear that what they are now under her leadership is nothing like what we suffered under Cameron/May/Johnson/Truss/Sunak - and most of the real trouble makers are now in Reform (and a couple are asking about coming back...)

Farage has shot his bolt, and without him Reform are just another bunch of amateurs. You can build a football team around a Harry Kane, but a political party, much less a government, needs a rather wider pool of talent.

What scares me though is people voting on the basis of "Anybody but..." with very little regard to what they are actually voting for. How many people do you know of that think Labour have held to their manifesto promises, even before the coronation of Andy Pandy?

[jamesbrown]

I would like to see a right-of-centre party that is not the Tory party (who can feck right off) with a credible plan for gov't, but the Farage clownshoe is definitely not that thing, just as the Polanski clownshoe is not that thing for lefties. Farage is a good campaigner, but just doesn't have the judgement, as this episode reveals, and the Trumpian style BS that is creeping into our politics won't attract British voters, regardless of what the polls currently say (people really only pay attention near to elections - at this stage, polls are only good for sticking two fingers up). This is a total lose-lose for Farage, although I expect he will probably trounce Binface (would be hilarious if he didn't, I agree). Question is what comes after Reform and will it be vaguely credible - again, the Tories can feck right off - I am not tremendously hopeful once the Burnham car crash inevitably ensues.

[WTFH]

His party have offered to pay the cost of the election, because that would be a good bit of publicity. How about the party owners and leaders pay their fair share of tax, rather than running multiple companies on and off shore to avoid it as much as possible. I'm sure if Mr Tice didn't have funds going to Dubai and run his property empire from Jersey via a trust, etc, their taxes would easily cover it.

[woody1]

I wonder how many folks in Clacton dislike him enough to get out and vote? It might motivate some (eg. young people) who normally CBA.

The beauty of it is, by voting for Bin Face, you can stick two fingers up to Farage and the establishment.