Reply to: Vehicles with no human driver

[Protagoras]

That's why I said "tends to", not "always do". Call me old fashioned but I think keeping human flying skills up to date is quite useful. I'd love to see if an automated system would have picked the Hudson river as a landing spot.

An aviation forum I hang out on has been debating for decades the perceived de-skilling arising from automation. There have been accidents and near misses where pilots have failed properly to handle situations of automation failure. Then there's the issue of keeping up with what automation is actually doing in real time, leading to "what's it doing now?" type commentary.

Automation doesn't always fail gracefully; sensor failures commonly seriously compromise automation. A challenge for vehicles would be how reversion from automation to manual operation is handled. It can't be assumed that the driver of an automated vehicle can maintain the situational awareness to be able to take control instantly.

[ladymuck]

They only do that so the pilots keep their skills up to date - even then stuff like the throttle settings on takeoff are automated. Planes could very easily manage the takeoff and landing (and they do the landings at times) - in some cases like full cat III landings in dense fog there's no way for a human to do it.

That's why I said "tends to", not "always do". Call me old fashioned but I think keeping human flying skills up to date is quite useful. I'd love to see if an automated system would have picked the Hudson river as a landing spot.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Regarding planes - a human tends to control the take off and landing and then it's the computer that takes over for the cruise phase which, as woody says, is in relatively clear airspace (barring any Russian/Iranian missiles out for a Sunday stroll).

They only do that so the pilots keep their skills up to date - even then stuff like the throttle settings on takeoff are automated. Planes could very easily manage the takeoff and landing (and they do the landings at times) - in some cases like full cat III landings in dense fog there's no way for a human to do it.

[WTFH]

Out of curiosity, would people feel differently if driverless cars were restricted to specific lanes rather than mixed in with everyone else?

They could sit in the middle lane with the zoned out zombie drivers who are unaware of anything around them, or in the outside lane with the BMW drivers -would just need to program the car to drive one metre from the car in front.

[alamest]

I think context matters a lot. I’m far more relaxed about automation where the environment is controlled and predictable (trains, planes, even airport shuttles) than on public roads with pedestrians, cyclists and human unpredictability.

What still bothers me with driverless cars isn’t the tech itself, it’s how it handles the edge cases — the weird, human stuff that isn’t in the rules. Until that’s convincingly solved, I’m not sure I’d fully trust one.

Out of curiosity, would people feel differently if driverless cars were restricted to specific lanes or zones rather than mixed in with everyone else?

[Chris Bryce]

My EV drives itself (kind of) on the motorway. Its a bit weird at first but you soon get used to it. Only problem is it nags you to keep your hands on the wheel so not really much point. I generally do the driving as the car is too cautious.

Mine (an ICE) does the same. Combined with adaptive cruise control (radar), I've done many 1000s of motorway miles with the car "in control" - I find it to be very competent.

[Uncle Albert]

Yeah, that's a job AI won't be stealing any time soon

They'll be like those "self-cleaning" public toilets. A full internal hose down after every trip. Just hope that it doesn't start while your still in there.

[ladymuck]

Not sure who cleans out the sick on a Friday night though

Yeah, that's a job AI won't be stealing any time soon

[Snooky]

When I was young, driving was fun, but a combination of becoming an old curmudgeon and hugely increased levels of traffic have made it an unwelcome chore most of the time, and I avoid it where possible.

I'd love to have driverless cars. In theory, they can travel much faster, but still far more safely, than human-piloted vehicles, with the huge benefit that you basically have your own private train carriage to relax and pass the travel time however you like.

But as mentioned by others, there are a lot of issues which will take decades to resolve, such as how to safely and reliably cater for a mix of human and automated drivers, and how to make the process unhackable (virtually impossible).

I still think I'll see it become a huge thing in my lifetime, probably with a subscription or pay-per-trip model so that you don't actually have to own a car if you don't need to. I realise we already have taxis and Ubers etc, so this would just be that without having to pay for a human to drive it. Not sure who cleans out the sick on a Friday night though

[ladymuck]

Actually did you see the small print at the start which said all their animations are human made? If you look at their channel it provides links to the channel creators. It was shared via a source I trust so I have no reason to think it's a video created in response to a chatGPT prompt. Yes the voice was annoying but the actual content is true. Car manufacturers are creating smartphones with wheels with little consideration for the human factors involved. Having been with friends who hired a car at Berlin airport, where we had to spend 10 minutes searching for and watching videos about how to start the engine and turn on the lights, find common functions, I fail to understand how all that so-called technology is making driving safer.

[WTFH]

Just came across this, not strictly driverless cars but more along the theme of "modern car design is bad".

On Autocar/TopGear/etc comments sections there tends to be a series of standard responses when a new car is launched:
1. They all look the same
Then a manufacturer comes out with a different design and the following responses happen:
2. It has a silly name
3. It is made in China and therefore very poor quality
4. It is woke
5. They should make something like that but it needs to be affordable (i.e. under £10,000 new)
6. In my day cars lasted 20 years, these things will fall apart after 3 years.

Amusingly, the video you've shared has been voiced by AI (the whole thing has probably been put together by ChatGPT "make me a video that backs up this theory and will generate revenue for me"), I prefer human voices and a real presenter.
I'm still learning stuff about my new car, but I rarely look at the big screen, rather I use the voice control to manage the heating, navigation, radio, etc., which means my hands don't come off the wheel at all.

[ladymuck]

Just came across this, not strictly driverless cars but more along the theme of "modern car design is bad".

[alamest]

I’m not against the idea in principle, but I think context matters a lot.

Driverless works best where the environment is controlled or predictable — motorways, rail, airspace, even fixed routes. Urban driving in the UK is the complete opposite: mixed road users, poor lane discipline, temporary roadworks, confusing signage and plenty of “unwritten rules” that humans rely on every day.

Human error causes a lot of accidents, no doubt, but humans are also very good at improvising when something unexpected happens. That’s the bit I’m not convinced automation has fully cracked yet, especially in busy cities.

I’d trust a driverless vehicle far sooner on a motorway or dedicated route than I would in central London at rush hour. We’ll get there eventually, but I think widespread, fully human-free driving is still a fair way off.

[Paddy]

I can do my own driving, thanks.
don't need 'alexa' fugging it up.

[DoctorStrangelove]