Reply to: Data Centres Are Causing Droughts

[willendure]

Something else to worry about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P29F7LAtqzc

[willendure]

No, that would be energy. Water can quite literally be created / destroyed. It's the by product of some chemical reactions and other chemical reactions split H2O into its constituent parts. It's basic chemistry. Photosynthesis splits water molecules in order to produce oxygen, for example.

I know that. What I mean is the water cycle has it mostly going round and round not being released or absorbed into something else by chemical reactions. Sure, some does, but the water cycle isn't really a source or drain of water, on the whole.

[ladymuck]

Water is not really created or destroyed.

No, that would be energy. Water can quite literally be created / destroyed. It's the by product of some chemical reactions and other chemical reactions split H2O into its constituent parts. It's basic chemistry. Photosynthesis splits water molecules in order to produce oxygen, for example.

The biggest impact of human activity on water supplies is the reduction of drinkable water that doesn't need much / any treatment in order to be safe. Yes we're surrounded by the stuff but it's not all suitable for ingestion. Data centres ought to be using grey water for cooling so that they don't take from the drinkable supply. However, I suspect the design of the cooling systems requires pure water to stop the pipes getting clogged up with contaminants.

[Protagoras]

I suspect in a few months time we'll have the opposite problem. Too much of the stuff, and flooding.

There have always been periods in geological timescales of high CO2, flooding, cooling etc. There will be a point at which unlimited human population growth will be curtailed by the environment. Before that, we'll have much greater problems of parts of the earth becoming uninhabitable and more human migrations.

Maybe in the end, there will be relatively few humans and lots of data centres since the AI won't know what to delete!

For me the elephant in the room looks like too many humans; we're probably already at that level economically in terms of wealth generation to support the population level.

[woody1]

I suspect in a few months time we'll have the opposite problem. Too much of the stuff, and flooding.

[willendure]

IIRC data centre water usage is a drop in the ocean (no pun intended) vs agriculture and civilian use, and a single chatGPT query uses next to nothing proportionally..it's a distraction from much bigger issues when it comes to AI prompting DC builds (like how none of the big tech cos trying to build AGI have a clue how to control it, but are just YOLOing it anyway)

Yup.

1/3 of all CO2 released by human activity comes directly from the soil. As much as 10% from cement production.

Water is not really created or destroyed. Soil is destroyed as it loses its carbon and desertification is increasing. Creating soil can take a thousand years naturally, but maybe we can do it quicker through deliberate composting. Nitrogen and Phosphorous are badly out of whack and a huge threat to the ecological balance.

I think we will destroy our ability to farm and end up in famine for these reasons before we end up there through drought anyway.

[DoctorStrangelove]

Number ones only require a bush in the garden behind which to hide.

Does wonders for the gooseberry bushes in keeping the American mildew away.

But you have to be careful of the thorns. .

[Protagoras]

The main way we consume less water is only flushing for number twos.

Number ones only require a bush in the garden behind which to hide.

[Paracelsus]

IIRC data centre water usage is a drop in the ocean (no pun intended) vs agriculture and civilian use, and a single chatGPT query uses next to nothing proportionally..it's a distraction from much bigger issues when it comes to AI prompting DC builds (like how none of the big tech cos trying to build AGI have a clue how to control it, but are just YOLOing it anyway)

[woody1]

Perhaps they should be "encouraged" to turn that waste heat back into electricity.

It can be done, although I don't think it's that efficient, and I don't know how much water it would save. Still, it would be better than it totally going to waste.

[woody1]

*ahem* driving the water cycle, you mean.

True but not much use in the short term if reservoirs are empty. It's not as though you can control where the evaporated water lands back on the ground.

I think the direct heating is way less significant than the indirect heating from the greenhouse effect driven by the CO2 and methane output.

It was the consumed electricity I was driving at. At least if the heat was utilised in some way, it wouldn't be such a waste. Of course, it wouldn't matter if all electricity was generated by renewables but currently it's not. Burning gas to generate electricity to produce and waste heat isn't very smart.

[WTFH]

Debatable. Wikipedia defines drought as "A drought is a period of drier-than-normal conditions" and other sources as "a prolonged period of abnormally low rainfall, leading to a shortage of water". Increase in drought is linked to climate change.

So I think it would be more accurate to claim that data centres are intensifying economic competition for water resources rather than causing droughts.

You refer to "economic competition", you mean that if people don't have drinking water, that's just an economic issue. You seem to think that the water cycle is tied to specific locations, it is not. This has been explained already, but you've not understood that.

[willendure]

...using huge quantities of water in the process...

*ahem* driving the water cycle, you mean.

I think the direct heating is way less significant than the indirect heating from the greenhouse effect driven by the CO2 and methane output.

[woody1]

As for data centres, they should be located where the waste heat can be used e.g. for district heating.

Many people probably don't realise that virtually every kWh of electricity they consume ends up as waste heat. Surely there's got to be a better answer than just dumping this in the atmosphere, and using huge quantities of water in the process. Same applies to Bitcoin miners.

[willendure]

Drought => not enough water supply where it's wanted for human activity.

So that drought is a natural consequence of too many humans wanting to undertake economic activity in inappropriate locations.

Debatable. Wikipedia defines drought as "A drought is a period of drier-than-normal conditions" and other sources as "a prolonged period of abnormally low rainfall, leading to a shortage of water". Increase in drought is linked to climate change.

So I think it would be more accurate to claim that data centres are intensifying economic competition for water resources rather than causing droughts.