Reply to: Good start magic Auntie

[JustKeepSwimming]

Yep - the biggest problem the UK has with the ECHR and the EU was that we actually tried to comply with all the laws - most of countries ignore the bits they really don't like...

If I recall for ECJ UK was average for notices received, very low for ignoring those notices and highest success rate when we did challenge the notice. Notice is like a warning from the court that they think a memberstate is not in compliance.

TBF we did have opt outs which allowed us to ignore a lot of controversial stuff.

[eek]

Italy is one of the members of the ECHR who mostly ignores them, so human rights laws are only a hindrance if you obey the ECHR.

Yep - the biggest problem the UK has with the ECHR and the EU was that we actually tried to comply with all the laws - most of countries ignore the bits they really don't like...

[SueEllen]

Big issue is im not sure what can actually be done regardless of who is in power. Human Rights laws are a real hinderance and I think the danger is that we reach breaking point on immigration that countries turn around and say '**** it' and roll back the legislation en masse. Whereas if we could have grown up discussion we might be able to amend 70 year old laws to meet the challenges of today whilst maintain the overall principles.

Italy is one of the members of the ECHR who mostly ignores them, so human rights laws are only a hindrance if you obey the ECHR.

[JustKeepSwimming]

Sadly its coming ein reich, ein volk=AFD

https://www.politico.eu/article/germ...-wins-in-east/

France has moved to the right

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2...right-rhetoric

even the BBC have noticed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66056375

Most people just want to get on, work & raise children in peace.

Big issue is im not sure what can actually be done regardless of who is in power. Human Rights laws are a real hinderance and I think the danger is that we reach breaking point on immigration that countries turn around and say '**** it' and roll back the legislation en masse. Whereas if we could have grown up discussion we might be able to amend 70 year old laws to meet the challenges of today whilst maintain the overall principles.

[vetran]

There is no deep misunderstanding between memberstates. There is systemic delusion among the EU elites.

Memberstates, as in the populace, are broadly in agreement. Immigration is OK if controlled. Mass uncontrolled immigration is not OK.

Fortunately for us, FPTP keeps extremists out of power. Same can't be said for PR in Europe and why you will start seeing more far right parties gaining power.

Sadly its coming ein reich, ein volk=AFD

https://www.politico.eu/article/germ...-wins-in-east/

France has moved to the right

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2...right-rhetoric

even the BBC have noticed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66056375

Most people just want to get on, work & raise children in peace.

[vetran]

Backed up by polling.

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/0...voted-and-why/

'Ever closer union' aka 'sovereignty' were the top 3 reasons for the leave vote.

cheers pretty picture!

[vetran]

Well this is likely to end the EU as we know it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-ukraine-china

yep saw that in the wail, resisted posting it as it would just result in a slanging match on here. But it seems the shine is coming off migration in the EU.

[JustKeepSwimming]

In your view.

Backed up by polling.

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/0...voted-and-why/

'Ever closer union' aka 'sovereignty' were the top 3 reasons for the leave vote.

[JustKeepSwimming]

This is the closest I could find - states which have become members since 1989 are expected to become parties to the ECHR as soon as possible, ideally within one year

https://web.archive.org/web/20100110...4/ERES1031.HTM

Of course that resolution is now almost 20 years old and things may have changed since then.

It's Article 6 of the Treaty of Lisbon. It's got a bit of legalese barrier (due to EU law) but it does mean that ECHR membership is a condition of EU membership.

[Snooky]

Instead of shouting show me a link.

This is the closest I could find - states which have become members since 1989 are expected to become parties to the ECHR as soon as possible, ideally within one year

https://web.archive.org/web/20100110...4/ERES1031.HTM

Of course that resolution is now almost 20 years old and things may have changed since then.

[JustKeepSwimming]

There is no deep misunderstanding between memberstates. There is systemic delusion among the EU elites.

Memberstates, as in the populace, are broadly in agreement. Immigration is OK if controlled. Mass uncontrolled immigration is not OK.

Fortunately for us, FPTP keeps extremists out of power. Same can't be said for PR in Europe and why you will start seeing more far right parties gaining power.

[SueEllen]

The good Friday agreement is to allow the UK to leave the EU and continued membership of the ECHR after we left the EU was an agreed term.

It was one of the agreed terms that stated the UK had to remain in the ECHR.

You are aware they are 47 members of the ECHR and only 27 EU members?

The ECHR isn't an EU institution unlike the European Court of Justice. (We have to stay in that under Brexit as well.)

You still haven't explained why the UK should leave an institution it was instrumental in forming.

TO BE A MEMBER OF THE EU REQUIRES YOU TO BE A MEMBER OF ECHR - REPEATED LOUDER FOR THE HARD OF HEARING.

Instead of shouting show me a link.

On second point You know the EU isn't a country? The move towards wishing to be recognised as one was a key part of Brexit.

In your view.

[SueEllen]

Well this is likely to end the EU as we know it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-ukraine-china

Migration could be “a dissolving force for the European Union” due to deep cultural differences between European countries and their long-term inability to reach a common policy, the EU’s most senior diplomat has said.

[vetran]

A moot point in the UK's case as I'm sure you have heard of the Good Friday Agreement.


(Worth noting I did a quick google and found this - https://www.coe.int/en/web/portal/eu...ns-and-answers In other words the EU hasn't even joined yet. )

The good Friday agreement is to allow the UK to leave the EU and continued membership of the ECHR after we left the EU was an agreed term.

TO BE A MEMBER OF THE EU REQUIRES YOU TO BE A MEMBER OF ECHR - REPEATED LOUDER FOR THE HARD OF HEARING.

On second point You know the EU isn't a country? The move towards wishing to be recognised as one was a key part of Brexit.

[SueEllen]

oh so being an EU member doesn't require you to be a member of the ECHR? Can you quote a reference?

A moot point in the UK's case as I'm sure you have heard of the Good Friday Agreement.


(Worth noting I did a quick google and found this - https://www.coe.int/en/web/portal/eu...ns-and-answers In other words the EU hasn't even joined yet. )