Reply to: Slackers need not apply

[vetran]

SM's should not be "standing at the front". The daily standup is not for the team to report progress to the SM; that happening is an anti-pattern.

My experience is good PMs can make good SMs, if they appreciate they are different roles and act as a servant-leader. Bad PMs always make bad SMs as they don't realise they are different roles and don't want to lose the control being PM allows them to have.

The team should be updating everyone in a collaborative way, however that is frequently not what happens.

[vetran]

This 100%. The Scrum Master is a role, not a person, and a highly performing and mature agile team can have one the team perform the role, with their capacity for feature development reduced appropriately.

observational comedy -

When do you know you are talking to an extrovert software developer?

he looks at YOUR shoes

By all means rotate your team into the SM role if you want but first teach the scrum to behave, then respect the temp SM's ability and support them.

[Paralytic]

Interesting idea, though some of life's introverts standing at the front may be uncomfortable for them. My experience is that good PMs make good SMs.

SM's should not be "standing at the front". The daily standup is not for the team to report progress to the SM; that happening is an anti-pattern.

My experience is good PMs can make good SMs, if they appreciate they are different roles and act as a servant-leader. Bad PMs always make bad SMs as they don't realise they are different roles and don't want to lose the control being PM allows them to have.

[Paralytic]

I quite like the idea some teams use of rotating the SM around the team because SM isn't in charge, just a facilitator.

This 100%. The Scrum Master is a role, not a person, and a highly performing and mature agile team can have one the team perform the role, with their capacity for feature development reduced appropriately.

[vetran]

There's a lot of personal responsibility on team members, it shouldn't be that the team only works with a PM constantly chasing people. A bad manager can get by in a good team, a good manager will improve any team (mostly by encouraging personal responsibility IMO) but it rather depends on who is there. Sometimes they might make the team better by removing people.

I guess I'd say a good manager makes it look like they aren't needed much of the time, because they have facilitated a setup where people do things without being pushed. So it's deceptive

agree completely a good manager makes it natural to be a good team member.

[d000hg]

A bad team has a bad manager - simple as that.

There's a lot of personal responsibility on team members, it shouldn't be that the team only works with a PM constantly chasing people. A bad manager can get by in a good team, a good manager will improve any team (mostly by encouraging personal responsibility IMO) but it rather depends on who is there. Sometimes they might make the team better by removing people.

I guess I'd say a good manager makes it look like they aren't needed much of the time, because they have facilitated a setup where people do things without being pushed. So it's deceptive

[vetran]

I've never not had a team that gels, and that is absurdly diverse teams. You definitely get people who have no interest in a personal relationship with anyone else but mature enough to maintain a productive professional relationship.

You do get the odd person who is just toxic. If that's the manager well tulip, the team will bond over it in the short term but look to leave within a few months. If it's a team member the manager needs to cut them ASAP.

I have worked in teams where people are playing silly games and skiving. The manager in many cases needed to step up, a few didn't.

I have worked in & run teams that are diverse and worked really well, sometimes a few private words were needed to get to that position, rarely did we need to drop someone who didn't clearly need the sack anyway.

[JustKeepSwimming]

I've never not had a team that gels, and that is absurdly diverse teams. You definitely get people who have no interest in a personal relationship with anyone else but mature enough to maintain a productive professional relationship.

You do get the odd person who is just toxic. If that's the manager well tulip, the team will bond over it in the short term but look to leave within a few months. If it's a team member the manager needs to cut them ASAP.

[northernladuk]

A bad team has a bad manager - simple as that.

Where that is absolutely key I don't think it's the be all and end all so not as simple as that. Even with the best manager having poor people in the roles still makes the team less effective. It can be fixed by a good manager who will know how to improve, change or remove the problem for sure. A crap manager will attempt to ignore it and the problem will just roll on and on but I do think the actual members of a team can be a factor IMO.

But I do agree if the team appears not to be working it can be vastly improved by the manager making it happen. Just sometimes that will mean a change in team members.

[vetran]

Yeah exactly. I mean, he might have been brilliant anyway but if you can't speak up you are not a)going to get recognised b)doing the best job because you are depriving the team of your expertise.
This is one thing I like about SUs even outside of 'proper agile' it (should) mean the recent graduate is given the same platform as the experienced expert.

And it should be fine to say "I'm stuck on this and didn't get much done". But this all comes down to leadership (from the team not just the PM) and setting a good example - my thoughts are that Agile provides a framework to make that a bit easier but only if people can be convinced to act this way.

Oh he was brilliant just in our 121s, thoughtful & insightful but shy, his previous manager had pushed him into support, I gave him 30% dev and he made the others look like amateurs. He did the support much more willingly as well.

Trust is hard to build.There is no I in team but there should be a ME making it work!

[vetran]

It also depends on the people in the team.

Some teams simply don't gel.

A bad team has a bad manager - simple as that.

[d000hg]

Before agile was a thing we had weekly team meetings and I encouraged everyone to stand up and discuss their accomplishments etc. Even the shy young developer managed it, when he left (when they broke up my team to flatten the worldwide structure) he was one of the best dev's and communicators we had ever had.

Yeah exactly. I mean, he might have been brilliant anyway but if you can't speak up you are not a)going to get recognised b)doing the best job because you are depriving the team of your expertise.
This is one thing I like about SUs even outside of 'proper agile' it (should) mean the recent graduate is given the same platform as the experienced expert.

And it should be fine to say "I'm stuck on this and didn't get much done". But this all comes down to leadership (from the team not just the PM) and setting a good example - my thoughts are that Agile provides a framework to make that a bit easier but only if people can be convinced to act this way.

[SueEllen]

Yep it requires support to do that, good employers will do that, most won't.

It also depends on the people in the team.

Some teams simply don't gel.

[Eirikur]

Here is the ad on Jobserve
https://www.jobserve.com/gb/en/searc...6BB871CC6157E/

[vetran]

I used to find just doing a stand-up quite stressful when I was much younger, and I'm sure many other devs are similar but it's important everyone is heard. Though I wouldn't say any team should force anyone to take the SM role who isn't happy doing so, I would encourage anyone to try it as long as their team is encouraging. It's good to be able to do stuff like that and it will make you better at your job if you're able to. The moment you move beyond being "just a coder implementing a task" you need to be able to talk to humans to discuss ideas, etc as a developer. A good employer would mentor people who find this hard and would benefit a lot from seeing those people grow because often they have great ideas they are too nervous to share

Yep it requires support to do that, good employers will do that, most won't.

Before agile was a thing we had weekly team meetings and I encouraged everyone to stand up and discuss their accomplishments etc. Even the shy young developer managed it, when he left (when they broke up my team to flatten the worldwide structure) he was one of the best dev's and communicators we had ever had.