Reply to: Matt Handjob could be...

[malvolio]

I know it's common in the private sector but, for some reason, the rules for government and their assorted hangers on are about 20 years behind. I think they only banned used of private email in the early 2000's.

Its's way more complicated than that. There are rules about how you label the Subject Line of an email for example, to meet the various (and ever changing) definitions of security levels, never mind stuff like addressees and the bounds of what can be contained within each of the various groupings.

But - and it's significant - any and every Civil Servant is bound by the OSA. The tool is irrelevant, the dissemination of governmental material is controlled, and if you don't adhere to the rules, you can go to jail.

So giving such material to a reporter outside the ambit of the CS rules is just stupid. But then again, 99% of politicians appear to see stupidity as a desirable.

[ladymuck]

Locking a company phone to stop installs is easy we were doing it 15 years ago. Any attempt to bypass was treated as hacking and prosecuted.

If its government secrets you can dictate exactly what people use to communicate and lock them up if they ignore the instruction, though the threat to make them unemployable on government contracts usually works.

As you say for private industry you change the contracts to make it a sacking offence just as plenty of companies who service governments do.

This is well documented in the public domain its not rocket science.

I know it's common in the private sector but, for some reason, the rules for government and their assorted hangers on are about 20 years behind. I think they only banned used of private email in the early 2000's.

[vetran]

Oh vetran we agree on something

try it you might like it

[SueEllen]

Oh vetran we agree on something

[vetran]

The trouble is, is you can't really stop use of messaging apps like Signal or WhatsApp.

Yes, you can give people a company phone and dictate what gets installed on it. What then happens is people hand out their personal phone number because they don't want to carry multiple phones, they left one phone at home that day, they need to do something the work phone won't allow even though it's not against the rules, etc etc. Once enough people do that, the messages start to flow and control is lost.

The only way to stamp it out is to make it a sacking offence if non-authorised messaging apps (on non-authorised devices) are used to discuss parliamentary business but that will never happen.

Locking a company phone to stop installs is easy we were doing it 15 years ago. Any attempt to bypass was treated as hacking and prosecuted.

If its government secrets you can dictate exactly what people use to communicate and lock them up if they ignore the instruction, though the threat to make them unemployable on government contracts usually works.

As you say for private industry you change the contracts to make it a sacking offence just as plenty of companies who service governments do.

This is well documented in the public domain its not rocket science.

[SueEllen]

The trouble is, is you can't really stop use of messaging apps like Signal or WhatsApp.

</snip>

The only way to stamp it out is to make it a sacking offence if non-authorised messaging apps (on non-authorised devices) are used to discuss parliamentary business but that will never happen.

MPs are employed by their constituents.

Civil servants are employed by the state.

SPADs while employed by a minister are civil servants.

The civil servants can be sacked for using unauthorised apps for government work. So if MPs use unauthorised apps if the civil servants don't reply to them through it then it's job done.

[SueEllen]

Oh the subject of the original topic. (While myself and a couple of others can give you the dirt from the Torygraph this is a summary of it.)


https://news.sky.com/story/journalis...kdown-12824405

The journalist who leaked Matt Hancock's lockdown WhatsApp messages has said the public are only interested in what happened - not in her or the former health secretary's reputation.

[ladymuck]

The trouble is, is you can't really stop use of messaging apps like Signal or WhatsApp.

Yes, you can give people a company phone and dictate what gets installed on it. What then happens is people hand out their personal phone number because they don't want to carry multiple phones, they left one phone at home that day, they need to do something the work phone won't allow even though it's not against the rules, etc etc. Once enough people do that, the messages start to flow and control is lost.

The only way to stamp it out is to make it a sacking offence if non-authorised messaging apps (on non-authorised devices) are used to discuss parliamentary business but that will never happen.

[vetran]

But Teams & Slack aren't really messaging apps. They support private messages but as a messaging tool they are quite clunky IMO

I use whatsapp for private and teams for work. Teams is most definitely more work focussed with SharePoint backend, organisation chart etc. Great interoperability with other businesses, currently logged into a customers teams (literally just choose log into Customer as vetran) reviewing their data and updating their files.

Whatsapp is just messaging and not stable at that.

what do you think needs adding to teams?

I also have M$ Skype & yammer which I don't use much.

[d000hg]

its coming,

https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/...ther%20content.

But the message on teams is already encrypted but admins can see it. Like most other things.

But Teams & Slack aren't really messaging apps. They support private messages but as a messaging tool they are quite clunky IMO

[d000hg]

Most people complain about spending their inclusive SMS on work stuff. Remember most people are on personal mobile contracts.

People still get limited numbers of SMS in their contracts?

SMS aren't encrypted.

I know but that's not what I asked - is sending your boss a message "Closed the deal at $5m" something you'd get into trouble for at places which ban WA for business use?

[vetran]

Signal and WhatsApp are the only widely used messaging tools with end to end strong encryption (for text). That's pretty secure.

its coming,

https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/...ther%20content.

But the message on teams is already encrypted but admins can see it. Like most other things.

[NotAllThere]

Signal and WhatsApp are the only widely used messaging tools with end to end strong encryption (for text). That's pretty secure.

[SueEllen]

Probably not, but some sort of instant messaging app should be... are SMS allowed?

Most people complain about spending their inclusive SMS on work stuff. Remember most people are on personal mobile contracts.

SMS aren't encrypted.

Yeah it wasn't commentary on the UK, but on the idea of using a bespoke government app and expecting it to be as good as something like WA.
What you really want would perhaps be the ability to buy a private WA on your own servers, but I don't think that's something anyone really solid does? The idea we just trust everything sensitive to some 3rd party is fundamentally dodgy.

TikTok....

[d000hg]

As far as I'm aware it isn't an approved app for large companies and government departments like Teams, Slack, etc.

Probably not, but some sort of instant messaging app should be... are SMS allowed?

I was informed that other European countries screwed up but not as badly as the UK.

Yeah it wasn't commentary on the UK, but on the idea of using a bespoke government app and expecting it to be as good as something like WA.
What you really want would perhaps be the ability to buy a private WA on your own servers, but I don't think that's something anyone really solid does? The idea we just trust everything sensitive to some 3rd party is fundamentally dodgy.