Reply to: DOOM: NHS

[vetran]

OK, but if there is a lack of resources, that is an administrative failure. If individuals aren't following the correct procedures diligently then that is a management failure. It's not like there aren't detailed, measurable standard processes in place or measures of outcomes intended to highlight underperforming staff or departments.

Sadly if you stumble its your head at fault not your legs.

[malvolio]

Some of the issues mentioned in various maternity reports are down to the Individuals delivering the care not simply maladministration and mismanagement.

There is also the issue, which is the same elsewhere in the Western world, that doctors and other healthcare practitioners don't want to work in poorer areas so those areas have less clinicians.

OK, but if there is a lack of resources, that is an administrative failure. If individuals aren't following the correct procedures diligently then that is a management failure. It's not like there aren't detailed, measurable standard processes in place or measures of outcomes intended to highlight underperforming staff or departments.

[SueEllen]

Yes. That's down to administration and (mis-)management, not the people actually delivering the care.

Some of the issues mentioned in various maternity reports are down to the Individuals delivering the care not simply maladministration and mismanagement.

There is also the issue, which is the same elsewhere in the Western world, that doctors and other healthcare practitioners don't want to work in poorer areas so those areas have less clinicians.

[malvolio]

So you haven't heard of the postcode lottery? Or missed things like maternity reports?

Yes. That's down to administration and (mis-)management, not the people actually delivering the care.

[Zigenare]

Considerably higher may have been true in the 90s, but certainly not now - next Labour Govt will certainly get there tax wise

What the squirrel molester said!

[AtW]

[QUOTE=Snooky;n4250259You don't think that has anything to do with the fact that French workers and companies considerably higher levels of taxation than in the UK?[/QUOTE]

Considerably higher may have been true in the 90s, but certainly not now - next Labour Govt will certainly get there tax wise

[xoggoth]

Inneresting farticle in the Daily Smellygraph re the ridiculous amounts of paperwork and poor IT systems that take up a lot of time.

The senior doctor took a photograph of all the forms required for one medical admission to an NHS hospital, laid against his 5ft 10in frame.

Dr Caldwell said promises by the NHS to “digitise” the health service had simply seen needless bureaucracy transferred on to poor computer systems that were often incompatible with each other.

The specialist in general medicine and diabetes endocrinology said: “A few years ago there were estimates that nurses were spending around 50 per cent of their time on paperwork; now I’d say it’s closer to 70 per cent.”

.......

Almost half of hospital workers (49 per cent) and more than half of social care workers (54 per cent) said that paperwork, admin and bureaucracy caused delays in discharging patients, according to a survey by CHS Healthcare.

The firm, which partners with the NHS to improve patient flow through hospitals, also found hospital staff need to contact those involved in a patient’s discharge 31 times on average during the process.

“We also know that an average of 50 actions – such as completing paperwork, arranging transportation, and approving funding – are required to discharge a patient,” said Matt Currall, managing director at CHS Healthcare.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...nhs-hospitals/

No suprise there. Any state organisation is usually crap. In my first job we usually multiplied an estimate for work by a significant figure when it was for the public sector, due to all the inevitable cockups and changes.

[SueEllen]

No you don't. Not even if you work for them.

So you haven't heard of the postcode lottery? Or missed things like maternity reports?

[Snooky]

those countries like France that don't have a health care crisis

You don't think that has anything to do with the fact that French workers and companies considerably higher levels of taxation than in the UK?

[malvolio]

Huh?

Nah the NHS has always been a mess.

The difference in who you are, who you know, where you live and what you need means you get a different level of service to others.

No you don't. Not even if you work for them.

[SueEllen]

Sorry, but reality hurts, doesn't it.

Huh?

Nah the NHS has always been a mess.

The difference in who you are, who you know, where you live and what you need means you get a different level of service to others.

[malvolio]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64216269.amp

France's health system under pressure of increasing demands

The UK's health system is buckling under the weight of staff shortages and a lack of beds. In France, meanwhile, there are more doctors and many more nurses, yet its healthcare system is still in crisis.
President Emmanuel Macron has promised to change the way its hospitals are funded, and to free doctors from time-consuming administration, in a bid to break what he called a "sense of endless crisis" in its health service.

A series of eye-catching measures over the past few years - such as signing-up bonuses of €50,000 (£44,000) for GPs in under-served areas, and ending a cap on the number of medical students in France - have failed to plug healthcare gaps.

The pressure on both hospitals and GPs has continued to mount with a triple-whammy of winter illnesses, leading medical staff to nickname this month "Black January".

After years of Covid, and with inflation biting, many say chronic staff shortages and increasing demands are making their work impossible and threatening the French health system.

Some hospitals are reporting up to 90% of their staff on "sick leave protest" at the conditions.

And France's second-largest health union has called an "unlimited walkout" this week, following a fortnight of strikes by French GPs.

Blah blah nothing to do with the Tories. However you should recognise that the idiot GP contracts that are one of the root causes, the millions spent on administering meaningless performance figures, the influx of UK residents without sufficient resources to support them and the screwing of private health care provision are all Labour creations. The Tories are at fault for not reversing them.

And France has a current crisis, as does a lot of the rest of the world, for many of the same out-of-their-control reasons that we do, but at least Macron is doing something about it.

Sorry, but reality hurts, doesn't it.

[SueEllen]

Blah blah blah Tory love fest...

(It's also how most of the continent does it, you know, those countries like France that don't have a health care crisis.)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64216269.amp

France's health system under pressure of increasing demands

The UK's health system is buckling under the weight of staff shortages and a lack of beds. In France, meanwhile, there are more doctors and many more nurses, yet its healthcare system is still in crisis.
President Emmanuel Macron has promised to change the way its hospitals are funded, and to free doctors from time-consuming administration, in a bid to break what he called a "sense of endless crisis" in its health service.

A series of eye-catching measures over the past few years - such as signing-up bonuses of €50,000 (£44,000) for GPs in under-served areas, and ending a cap on the number of medical students in France - have failed to plug healthcare gaps.

The pressure on both hospitals and GPs has continued to mount with a triple-whammy of winter illnesses, leading medical staff to nickname this month "Black January".

After years of Covid, and with inflation biting, many say chronic staff shortages and increasing demands are making their work impossible and threatening the French health system.

Some hospitals are reporting up to 90% of their staff on "sick leave protest" at the conditions.

And France's second-largest health union has called an "unlimited walkout" this week, following a fortnight of strikes by French GPs.

[malvolio]

Full tax refund for private medial treatment will do it

Someone introduced it in 1990 for the over 60s. Someone else remove it in 1997. Can't remember who it was, but they blamed its cost vs its take-up. Had they widened it to all over 18s they may have got a different result. Businesses can claim it as a business expense of course, but only for their officers; employees get hit with the BIK charge..

But it's another shibboleth. It is unacceptable to pay for your own health care, probably because it only benefits those who can afford it. The fact it releases funds and capacity for those who can't seems to have been ignored. (It's also how most of the continent does it, you know, those countries like France that don't have a health care crisis.)

[AtW]

Full tax refund for private medial treatment will do it