Reply to: RAF - ''offers to white men are paused to meet diversity targets"

[vetran]

I think you, and the Muslim guy in the screenshot make a very valid point. There's a difference between fighting a war to defend the country where you live against attacks on that country and being sent to somewhere else to fight a war that is political/ideology/financial.
Some (Such as Bliar) will argue that the war in Iraq or Afghanistan was about defending Britain, but if it was, then we should have stayed until we won the peace, not just winning the war. Unfortunately, there is very little glory or financial gain to be made from peace, easier to pull troops out and leave the locals to rebuild.

Or as Biden/Bidden pull out and feck up 20 years of progress.

[WTFH]

One does wonder if being an X first and a Brit second is a reasonable stance in war?

I think you, and the Muslim guy in the screenshot make a very valid point. There's a difference between fighting a war to defend the country where you live against attacks on that country and being sent to somewhere else to fight a war that is political/ideology/financial.
Some (Such as Bliar) will argue that the war in Iraq or Afghanistan was about defending Britain, but if it was, then we should have stayed until we won the peace, not just winning the war. Unfortunately, there is very little glory or financial gain to be made from peace, easier to pull troops out and leave the locals to rebuild.

[Zigenare]

Though to be fair having a few Muslims along might help in certain areas with intelligence and cultural knowledge. I am constantly learning about other cultures practices, much would be important in a war zone. I know if I were receiving Aid in Africa and was African it would be nice to see people with the same skin (yes its racist but hey we all are basically racist when scared).

One does wonder if being an X first and a Brit second is a reasonable stance in war?

Hopefully the battlefield won't include Blackburn, Bolton or Accrington!

[vetran]

I agree but if they attempt to give everyone fair opportunity to try and they fail themselves then so be it. It's not a diversity problem based on anything holding a single race/gender or whatever back. Again, the RAF is way different than most jobs. Of the 14% of non whites a good majority either can't or won't apply anyway so attempting to get the people in teh RAF to meet national diversity targets is wholly wrong. That's the root of the problem IMO, the figures and targets, not the actual process itself.

EDIT : I actually think having a look around the web my 'good majority' comment when talking about the 14% that don't want to join could actually be way off.

Real life comments like...

Though to be fair having a few Muslims along might help in certain areas with intelligence and cultural knowledge. I am constantly learning about other cultures practices, much would be important in a war zone. I know if I were receiving Aid in Africa and was African it would be nice to see people with the same skin (yes its racist but hey we all are basically racist when scared).

One does wonder if being an X first and a Brit second is a reasonable stance in war?

[SueEllen]

You really are trying to spoil my day aren't you ..... I refuse to listen to you and your heretic falsehoods!

Her children are cute -

Edited to say - I think Jase's children are now teenagers.

[northernladuk]

Nope, they can't. There are a miriad of reasons why some won't make the grade. That shouldn't stop them from trying though.

I agree but if they attempt to give everyone fair opportunity to try and they fail themselves then so be it. It's not a diversity problem based on anything holding a single race/gender or whatever back. Again, the RAF is way different than most jobs. Of the 14% of non whites a good majority either can't or won't apply anyway so attempting to get the people in teh RAF to meet national diversity targets is wholly wrong. That's the root of the problem IMO, the figures and targets, not the actual process itself.

EDIT : I actually think having a look around the web my 'good majority' comment when talking about the 14% that don't want to join could actually be way off.

Real life comments like...

[Zigenare]

And if that is the outcome with a totally fair application process that doesn't discriminate against anyone and that's the outcome then that's that. Manipulating it just for diversity reasons would be wholly wrong.

What they need to do is go way back and start educating kids from day one that everyone can be fighter pilots and there is nothing blocking them if they really want it. The best of the best in the pool of recruits is more diverse and that number will change. To exclude the major group for recruitment just for diverty is just wrong. Fix the problem earlier, not at the point they need to pass the tests and get recruited.

Nope, they can't. There are a miriad of reasons why some won't make the grade. That shouldn't stop them from trying though.

[northernladuk]

...You end up with an organisation that is 93% white males.

And if that is the outcome with a totally fair application process that doesn't discriminate against anyone and that's the outcome then that's that. Manipulating it just for diversity reasons would be wholly wrong.

What they need to do is go way back and start educating kids from day one that everyone can be fighter pilots and there is nothing blocking them if they really want it. The best of the best in the pool of recruits is more diverse and that number will change. To exclude the major group for recruitment just for diverty is just wrong. Fix the problem earlier, not at the point they need to pass the tests and get recruited.

[vetran]

Who has said that you just "back them regardless"?

And who said that those who are not white males "don't want to join"?

If the issue is that recruitment drives primarily take place in expensive single sex boarding schools, then the fix is to run recruitment campaigns elsewhere. But as soon as you start running them elsewhere, then you'll get accused by Wailers of "pick(ing) anyone who isn't white male and back them regardless"

Sadly that seems to be the way the Police have tried to equalise by selecting someone based on their Gender, race or sexuality then ignore when they commit gross misconduct such as domestic violence or corruption. Other diversity strategies do exist.

It seems the Police have doubled down and now only promote those with a degree so poor black lesbians are even less likely to get a look in.

I agree target the recruiting to attract those who currently don't want to join. "Come Join the PO-PO" ads?

What the RAF have done is exclude applicants based on colour and gender surely that is wrong?

[Whorty]

That's Myleene before she had 3 children.

Her most recent vids have her cute children in it.

You really are trying to spoil my day aren't you ..... I refuse to listen to you and your heretic falsehoods!

[Zigenare]

Who has said that you just "back them regardless"?

And who said that those who are not white males "don't want to join"?

If the issue is that recruitment drives primarily take place in expensive single sex boarding schools, then the fix is to run recruitment campaigns elsewhere. But as soon as you start running them elsewhere, then you'll get accused by Wailers of "pick(ing) anyone who isn't white male and back them regardless"

Perhaps watching the following might help you understand...

[WTFH]

In which case you work out why the non "white males" don't want to join and fix it. You don't just pick any one who isn't white male and back them regardless.

Who has said that you just "back them regardless"?

And who said that those who are not white males "don't want to join"?

If the issue is that recruitment drives primarily take place in expensive single sex boarding schools, then the fix is to run recruitment campaigns elsewhere. But as soon as you start running them elsewhere, then you'll get accused by Wailers of "pick(ing) anyone who isn't white male and back them regardless"

[TheDude]

What does make them the best of the best is the selection and training process. Do some research before engaging fingers with keyboard, there's a good chap.

My point is valid - the selection and training process is only relevant to those who apply.

Very few may make the grade but by definition these are not the best of the best - they are the best of the best of those who applied.

[vetran]

...You end up with an organisation that is 93% white males.

In which case you work out why the non "white males" don't want to join and fix it. You don't just pick any one who isn't white male and back them regardless. Otherwise you end up with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Dizaei

and similar.

[Gibbon]

What does make them the best of the best is the selection and training process. Do some research before engaging fingers with keyboard, there's a good chap.

Not so sure about Zig, the selection (for pilots and navs) is from a small pool of people who are officer material, so not necessarily the best pilots etc. Then again these days the planes fly themselves and they're designed to do that, so the pilot can concentrate on fighting. No more worrying about flight envelopes etc. Better having your play station whizzes these days as its all about battle management.

Also having served on front line sqns I can confirm that there are some Mavericks, but most aren't as the annual AA gunnery used to show in Cyprus.