Reply to: Oh dear

[d000hg]

Hence both Fascism and Communism and China's hybrid

But we've never really had communism have we, just power-grabs "for the people". Been a long time but wasn't Leninism about the closest genuine attempt at doing it for the 'right reasons' (and yes that's not communism) rather than as a power-mad despot?

[vetran]

But this is clearly unrealistic.

• Human nature is that most people want what's in their own interests
• such people are typically better at getting into power
• those who are truly zealous about 'the common good' typically want to implement their own ideals which may not actually be very good
• those who go in with good intentions and who are 'in touch with the common man' naturally become detached from reality amd trapped within the system

Pratchett and Douglas Adams have some good quotes to paraphrase:
"Nobody who wants to be in power should be allowed to be"
"Someone who really believes in their Cause should be viewed as extremely dangerous"

I never said it was realistic! I would like Elle McPherson & Amanda Holden to find me wildly attractive and want to do naughty things to me, I expect to be disappointed when it doesn't happen.

The problem is the current crop of politicians can't convince most people they are even credible which means the ones who shouldn't be elected are getting a chance which is scary.

[Gibbon]

[*]those who are truly zealous about 'the common good' typically want to implement their own ideals which may not actually be very good

Hence both Fascism and Communism and China's hybrid

[d000hg]

This is the worry, I want a balanced government run by honest people that run the country for the good of everybody..

But this is clearly unrealistic.

• Human nature is that most people want what's in their own interests
• such people are typically better at getting into power
• those who are truly zealous about 'the common good' typically want to implement their own ideals which may not actually be very good
• those who go in with good intentions and who are 'in touch with the common man' naturally become detached from reality amd trapped within the system

Pratchett and Douglas Adams have some good quotes to paraphrase:
"Nobody who wants to be in power should be allowed to be"
"Someone who really believes in their Cause should be viewed as extremely dangerous"

[Baddish]

sadly true. I can't stand him but he is a hell of a politician.

If this willun reassumed a position of power in Great Britain I can predict there would be great constellations amongst the peoples of the Middle east whose homes he has destroyed

[jainnode]

TFFT

[vetran]

My prediction is that the Labour party will parachute in Tony Blair to a safe seat and have him installed as leader by the next GE. He's the only one that can win it for them.

sadly true. I can't stand him but he is a hell of a politician.

[vetran]

To be fair, from my limited experience with politics this is pretty much the standard. Has been through all of history and will continue to repeat itself forever from what I can see. Just a matter of picking the worst of the bunch. But surely if the party in power wants to stop the decline to a car crash exit of power they just need to listen to, and absorb what is becoming the majority voice.

The third option above is a far right party that have one agenda and no idea how to run everything else in the country. Not good.

Or a far left party e.g. Russia, China or North Korea , overly religious like the Mad Mullahs and the Bible belt, or a far too racially motivated party such as in Zimbabwe and many African / Arab tinpot republics or anyone supporting BLM for government.

Stop obsessing about the far right, the nutters are in Far X organisations of all types. Stalin killed more than Hitler without even trying.

what we need are people with sense not nutters.

[Guy At Charnock Richard]

My prediction is that the Labour party will parachute in Tony Blair to a safe seat and have him installed as leader by the next GE. He's the only one that can win it for them.

[northernladuk]

This is the worry, I want a balanced government run by honest people that run the country for the good of everybody. Currently we have a bunch of liars and crooks and an opposition so incompetent they can't get elected with the door off the hinges exposing the governments failings. It seems to be that way across Europe.

To be fair, from my limited experience with politics this is pretty much the standard. Has been through all of history and will continue to repeat itself forever from what I can see. Just a matter of picking the worst of the bunch. But surely if the party in power wants to stop the decline to a car crash exit of power they just need to listen to, and absorb what is becoming the majority voice.

The third option above is a far right party that have one agenda and no idea how to run everything else in the country. Not good.

[vetran]

Absolutely and it's happening more and more. I don't really do politics but I can't understand why the large parties are scraping through in multiple countries don't think why they are failing and look at their policies to try appease the angry voters. Most don't want the right leaning parties in, it's just a way to voice how unhappy they are so why don't the main parties re-think some of their policies to suit the voice of the angry public? They are there to serve the public so never gets me why they don't listen.
Don't have to move to the right, just re-think some of the policies that are pushing people away. These are generally immigration based and it's only going to get worse.

It's not going to be a long before a far right group actually wins one of these situations outright and absolutely no one wants that really do they?

This is the worry, I want a balanced government run by honest people that run the country for the good of everybody. Currently we have a bunch of liars and crooks and an opposition so incompetent they can't get elected with the door off the hinges exposing the governments failings. It seems to be that way across Europe.

[Guy At Charnock Richard]

Absolutely and it's happening more and more. I don't really do politics but I can't understand why the large parties are scraping through in multiple countries don't think why they are failing and look at their policies to try appease the angry voters. Most don't want the right leaning parties in, it's just a way to voice how unhappy they are so why don't the main parties re-think some of their policies to suit the voice of the angry public? They are there to serve the public so never gets me why they don't listen.
Don't have to move to the right, just re-think some of the policies that are pushing people away. These are generally immigration based and it's only going to get worse.

It's not going to be a long before a far right group actually wins one of these situations outright and absolutely no one wants that really do they?

[northernladuk]

This is what happens when centrist elites don't actually address people's concerns and the right/left seem to have the 'answers', but they don't!

Absolutely and it's happening more and more. I don't really do politics but I can't understand why the large parties are scraping through in multiple countries don't think why they are failing and look at their policies to try appease the angry voters. Most don't want the right leaning parties in, it's just a way to voice how unhappy they are so why don't the main parties re-think some of their policies to suit the voice of the angry public? They are there to serve the public so never gets me why they don't listen.
Don't have to move to the right, just re-think some of the policies that are pushing people away. These are generally immigration based and it's only going to get worse.

It's not going to be a long before a far right group actually wins one of these situations outright and absolutely no one wants that really do they?

[Gibbon]

Yes, it used to be considered a bad thing when European countries lurched further to the right, but now right-wing ideologies are presented as centre, as history repeats itself. Hurrah for Le Pen!

This is what happens when centrist elites don't actually address people's concerns and the right/left seem to have the 'answers', but they don't!

[vetran]

Yes, it used to be considered a bad thing when European countries lurched further to the right, but now right-wing ideologies are presented as centre, as history repeats itself. Hurrah for Le Pen!

Lurching to the left normally kills more innocents. Ask Stalin.

The point is that whatever he is trying to sell is not working anymore with the voters.