Reply to: Council tax is illegal!

[SueEllen]

So your argument is that since we did it badly before, we should do it badly again?

Well you can pay for them to come around to your property.

Myself and a lot of others would be happy for it to be based on the lowest valued similar property on the street.

[d000hg]

Another quirk of Council Tax being based on banding of the house not valuation is that people in more expensive areas pay proportionately less.

I wonder if anyone already has compiled a "council tax as % of actual value" for different parts of the country?

[xoggoth]

The initial banding was done through a similar exercise which is why you can appeal the band your property is in. Or did you think in 1990/1991 in England or 2002/2003 in Wales they visited every single property?

Been thinking about appealing my property band, all the newer builds in my road are in a higher band although they aren't worth more on average.

[d000hg]

The initial banding was done through a similar exercise which is why you can appeal the band your property is in. Or did you think in 1990/1991 in England or 2002/2003 in Wales they visited every single property?

So your argument is that since we did it badly before, we should do it badly again?

[SueEllen]

And? A mortgage valuation is used for a lender to decide how much of their money I can have - it's their prerogative when it's their money. Very different to determining how much tax I am told I have to pay.

The initial banding was done through a similar exercise which is why you can appeal the band your property is in. Or did you think in 1990/1991 in England or 2002/2003 in Wales they visited every single property?

[d000hg]

That's one way they do mortgage valuations.

And? A mortgage valuation is used for a lender to decide how much of their money I can have - it's their prerogative when it's their money. Very different to determining how much tax I am told I have to pay.

[SueEllen]

[QUOTE=vetran;n4216800]

They can do it like house valuations.

So they band people's homes like now. Then do a drive by house valuation every 5 or so years. Then increase the value of homes in the band and the property tax as a percentage will naturally adjust accordingly.

It will help encourage people move out of homes too big for them.[/QUOTE]

yeah because people buying stuff with their own money is so bourgeoise.

There are a number of organisations that will provide you with fairly reliable pricing for most housing based on sales and other stats. Zoopla being one.

Zoopla's data is so inaccurate it isn't funny.

The same houses on the same street can vary by 50% due to when they were last sold. Oh and the houses are the same.

Anyway mortgage valuations use a similar technique but it is not as mad as what Zoopla comes out with.

[SueEllen]

So my tax is based on someone driving past making a casual valuation? How do I know this valuation is reasonable?

That's one way they do mortgage valuations.

[d000hg]

Another quirk of Council Tax being based on banding of the house not valuation is that people in more expensive areas pay proportionately less.

My ~500k house in County Durham is in band G because round here, that's historically a very expensive house. That runs me £3600 a year since Durham is about the 5th most expensive area for council tax. In Chelsea, band G costs £2200 but I assume a band G house would be £1m plus. Round here, you pay £130pcm for a £70k house.

Not sure what that really means but it suggests changing council tax to use bands based on actual valuations would be rather complex.

[Protagoras]

I do think that council tax is one of the most unfair taxes, since it's not related to ability to pay, and there's no adjustment a person can make to mitigate it beyond moving house. Property 'value' is not a good proxy for ability to pay. The rentier economy, for example, has people living in houses that they could not afford to purchase while taxed relative the the 'value' of the accommodation.

A council provides services. One pays for the services irrespective of use as a social good. It would make more sense to levy a per-capita charge, such as a local income tax, with ability to pay is taken into account.

As for those with unearned property wealth (e.g. the rich pensioner debate), a capital gains tax on residential property sales / transfers or a reduction in IHT allowances could deal with that, although this would not be popular.

P.S. I want more space, so I will be moving house. I am in a small flat built in the early 90s. The three-bedroom houses I am typically looking at locally are over double the price, but one or two council tax bands lower having been built in the 80s or earlier.

[d000hg]

Not if you have a wealth tax alongside!

People often talk about how the rich should pay a little more as their "fair share". I think this could be achieved with a new taxation tax. However much you pay in tax, you get taxed 10% on.

[NotAllThere]

Local income taxes instead of property tax could be an option. Of course that removes an opportunity to tax rich retired people.

Not if you have a wealth tax alongside!

[d000hg]

yeah because people buying stuff with their own money is so bourgeoise.

That's the point, most people don't buy houses with their own money.

[d000hg]

They can do it like house valuations.

So they band people's homes like now. Then do a drive by house valuation every 5 or so years. Then increase the value of homes in the band and the property tax as a percentage will naturally adjust accordingly.

It will help encourage people move out of homes too big for them.

So my tax is based on someone driving past making a casual valuation? How do I know this valuation is reasonable?

[vetran]

[QUOTE=SueEllen;n4216792]

They can do it like house valuations.

So they band people's homes like now. Then do a drive by house valuation every 5 or so years. Then increase the value of homes in the band and the property tax as a percentage will naturally adjust accordingly.

It will help encourage people move out of homes too big for them.[/QUOTE]

yeah because people buying stuff with their own money is so bourgeoise.

There are a number of organisations that will provide you with fairly reliable pricing for most housing based on sales and other stats. Zoopla being one.