Hogarth was a brexiteer!

[Gibbon]

I going to the exhibition on Tuesday, will report back. Did some Hogarth with OU so will see how perceptions have changed.

[NotAllThere]

Are you really this dim? I worry for you, I really do.

To paraphrase a line from The Lord of the Rings: What can one do in the face of such reckless dimness? (And utter lack of self-awareness).

[vetran]

Hogarth is English. Of course the curators and observers are talking about his representation of Britain in this period ... that's what his art represents. If he had been painting Nigerian society, then the critique would be about that society. Are you really this dim? I worry for you, I really do.


I read the link from the curators as this is what they said, not what the Torygraph or Wail have chosen to make a story about

Having difficulty understanding multiple contexts in an argument? OK I will get the crayons.

[Whorty]

Indeed it was the Telegraph.

Cancel culture is a little fluid in its meaning but many of the actions being performed now are designed to criminalise the actions of historical figures based on today's opinions and laws. I'm all for judging history, but it is a different country.

Also the discussions about slavery and Empire are framed in restrictive lens of a short period when the west ruled the world. If we removed the UK from that period of history how would the world look now? Would we all speak Nigerian? I suspect it would be Spanish, German or French. if we removed the west I suspect we would all be speaking Chinese or Arabic.

The idea that Cancel culture resulting in no-platforming is a good thing or likely to change entrenched minds is naïve.

Hogarth is English. Of course the curators and observers are talking about his representation of Britain in this period ... that's what his art represents. If he had been painting Nigerian society, then the critique would be about that society. Are you really this dim? I worry for you, I really do.

In the remote chance warty actually reads the story the comments are in the labels and from the mouths of the curators. Linking to a web page of the catalogue is not going to get you out of the hole you dug.

I read the link from the curators as this is what they said, not what the Torygraph or Wail have chosen to make a story about

[vetran]

The hole he dug?

Well you were down there with him but he was the one who got snotty.

[NotAllThere]

Linking to a web page of the catalogue is not going to get you out of the hole you dug.

The hole he dug?

[vetran]

The Wail took the story from the Torygraph, and it has been picked up by multiple outlets around the world, some claiming that it is evidence of "Cancel Culture" - which appears to be newspeak for "wanting to talk openly about something MORE", rather than the opposite, which would be "cancelling any discussion that might be contrary or offend those who are merry in their ignorance"

Indeed it was the Telegraph.

Cancel culture is a little fluid in its meaning but many of the actions being performed now are designed to criminalise the actions of historical figures based on today's opinions and laws. I'm all for judging history, but it is a different country.

Also the discussions about slavery and Empire are framed in restrictive lens of a short period when the west ruled the world. If we removed the UK from that period of history how would the world look now? Would we all speak Nigerian? I suspect it would be Spanish, German or French. if we removed the west I suspect we would all be speaking Chinese or Arabic.

The idea that Cancel culture resulting in no-platforming is a good thing or likely to change entrenched minds is naïve.

In the remote chance warty actually reads the story the comments are in the labels and from the mouths of the curators. Linking to a web page of the catalogue is not going to get you out of the hole you dug.

[WTFH]

You do realise that if it's not in the Wail, then it can't be true in Vetty's little world

The Wail took the story from the Torygraph, and it has been picked up by multiple outlets around the world, some claiming that it is evidence of "Cancel Culture" - which appears to be newspeak for "wanting to talk openly about something MORE", rather than the opposite, which would be "cancelling any discussion that might be contrary or offend those who are merry in their ignorance"

[Whorty]

Nope, they said something in the ellipsis which was omitted by the wail as it probably makes more sense than the phrase "seems to respond to Brexit", but by putting Brexit in there, it gets all the flakes worked up.

Here, have a read of what is actually being said by the Tate, and not what triggered you:
https://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tat...hibition-guide

You do realise that if it's not in the Wail, then it can't be true in Vetty's little world

[WTFH]

So they said we changed the exhibition in response to Brexit by portraying him as cosmopolitan and European rather than the xenophobe the art world normally think of him as. Seems they do suggest he is.

Nope, they said something in the ellipsis which was omitted by the wail as it probably makes more sense than the phrase "seems to respond to Brexit", but by putting Brexit in there, it gets all the flakes worked up.

Here, have a read of what is actually being said by the Tate, and not what triggered you:
https://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tat...hibition-guide

[vetran]

They don't.
So, not a Brexiteer, nor an anti-European racist Xenophobe.

What does seem woke is the additions of little signs saying that the economy of the time was funded by slavery. Oh. Ok. And?

So they said we changed the exhibition in response to Brexit by portraying him as cosmopolitan and European rather than the xenophobe the art world normally think of him as. Seems they do suggest he is.

[NotAllThere]

How they get from Hogarth he was a satirist who documented the unusual or immoral things he saw around him including drunkenness, depravity and immorality to he was anti - European racist Xenophobe its hard to fathom.

They don't.

The curators also said the show 'obviously... seems to respond to Brexit' by portraying Hogarth in a 'cosmopolitan, outward-looking' fashion, rather than as an 'insular patriot' and 'xenophobe', which they claim he is often viewed as.

So, not a Brexiteer, nor an anti-European racist Xenophobe.

What does seem woke is the additions of little signs saying that the economy of the time was funded by slavery. Oh. Ok. And?

[vetran]

Do you get the irony of calling out those who get triggered by something 'woke', when you're constantly getting triggered yourself?

No wonder you have high blood pressure.

Not triggered - amused they are obviously terminally stupid. They would make great posters here!

How they get from Hogarth he was a satirist who documented the unusual or immoral things he saw around him including drunkenness, depravity and immorality to he was anti - European racist Xenophobe its hard to fathom.

Its like there is a woke manual
1. select white middle/upper class British white male heterosexual historical figure.
2. Find anywhere he interacted with slaves (despite it being as legal as heroin was then).
3. Decide without evidence he must be a disgusting racist white slaver.
4. Ignore any transgressions by anyone else in the period.
5. scream at anyone who disagrees.

[Whorty]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...paintings.html





Can anyone tell us what those nice Germans, French, Belgians, Spanish & Portuguese people were buying from Africa around that time?

Do you get the irony of calling out those who get triggered by something 'woke', when you're constantly getting triggered yourself?

No wonder you have high blood pressure.

[vetran]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...paintings.html

Woke curators target Hogarth: Famous cartoonist's depictions of 18th century Britain now come with notes about 'sexual violence and slavery' in new Tate Britain exhibition

• Tate Britain exhibition highlights alleged slavery links in William Hogarth's work
• The painting A Midnight Modern Conversation is one of those mentioned
• Note says the alcohol and tobacco are linked to 'exploitation and slavery'
• The new Hogarth and Europe display showcases sixty of the artist's works

They draw attention to one painting, The Discovery, which shows a semi-naked black prostitute on a bed whilst four white men surround her, calling it 'explicitly racist'.

The curators also said the show 'obviously... seems to respond to Brexit' by portraying Hogarth in a 'cosmopolitan, outward-looking' fashion, rather than as an 'insular patriot' and 'xenophobe', which they claim he is often viewed as.

However, the historians added that they are unable to give an objective account of Hogarth's work because the exhibition is a 'Eurocentric project'.

Can anyone tell us what those nice Germans, French, Belgians, Spanish & Portuguese people were buying from Africa around that time?