Reply to: wanna be in my gang? - well you can't!

[Old Greg]

Oh dear

Courts urged to avoid using the word with reference to criminals because of 'negative connotations' | Daily Mail Online




Here's an idea why not just lock a few more of the ring leaders up and the "gangs" stop existing.

Even hardened criminals shouldn't be tarnished with a word associated with the founders of the SDP.

[AtW]

How do you prove membership, do you have to be a card-carrying member?

Anonymous witness statements by card carrying police gang leaders?

[SueEllen]

Also sharing this detail with potential recruits via people they respect and stopping rap/drill's drug dealing references would be a good start

There is a drill artist who has an order that means his lyrics have to be approved by the Police. So when he writes a new rap he has to explain it to his lawyer before it gets checked by the police before it is released.

Edited - actually I was wrong there is a few of them - Drill rap gang banned from making music without police permission in legal first | The Independent | The Independent I just read up about one of them in The Guardian.

[Whorty]

Aha now I see why the Daily Mail outraged.



Who needs evidence, gets in the way of entertaining court hearings.

Exactly, seems reasonable to me. If some scum-bag with Italian background was in the dock we wouldn't suggest they're in the mafia without evidence. But hey, anything to trigger the xenophobes

[vetran]

Yes, that's the article. I love the comparison between major drug gangs' org chart and McDonalds!

The point I was trying to make earlier (maybe not explicit enough), is that the people at the very top are very well protected, often behind front businesses, shady lawyers etc. If it was that easy, then the police would be focusing much more on that knowing if you take out the top structure, the pyramid below is likely to be disproportionately hit. I know a couple of people who work in tacking serious organised crime and from the very little they've told me, it can take years to build up a case against the people at the top of organised gangs.

I am sure its hard but we do really need to change tack because what we are doing is not working. I think unexplained wealth orders are the way to go. Even if we cant lock them up we can take the money!

Also sharing this detail with potential recruits via people they respect and stopping rap/drill's drug dealing references would be a good start

[edison]

Looked this seems to be the original article, this seems fascinating, the Capone approach seems to be the way to target the leaders then work down from them. I wonder why we don't do that?

Why Drug Dealers Live With Their Moms - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)



this is sad not surprising :

Yes, that's the article. I love the comparison between major drug gangs' org chart and McDonalds!

The point I was trying to make earlier (maybe not explicit enough), is that the people at the very top are very well protected, often behind front businesses, shady lawyers etc. If it was that easy, then the police would be focusing much more on that knowing if you take out the top structure, the pyramid below is likely to be disproportionately hit. I know a couple of people who work in tacking serious organised crime and from the very little they've told me, it can take years to build up a case against the people at the top of organised gangs.

[ladymuck]

Membership in a gang should be criminal offence in the first place

How do you prove membership, do you have to be a card-carrying member?

[Mordac]

Membership in a gang should be criminal offence in the first place

Too right...

Trigger Happy TV - All Squirrel Gang Scene /Collected By JunkieeeBoy/ - YouTube

[vetran]

even more analysis looking at jobs.

Why Do Drug Dealers Still Live With Their Moms? | cashsingskeynes (wordpress.com)

The median income of $15,000 per year in the area Venkatesh studied further sets the reality of drug dealing into perspective (95). Children experienced poverty at a rate three times the national average, many lived in single-parent homes and college graduates were exceedingly rare. Landing a job as a janitor at the University of Chicago was considerable feat. Such a low median income is symptomatic of life in a neighborhood where “the path to a decent job was practically invisible” (95). With this in mind, it is no wonder there was such a high propensity to consider the drug trade as a career. People on the south side of Chicago were merely responding to the incentives one could enjoy by excelling in the drug trade and believed they could not be any worse off than they already were. In other words, the potential benefits far outweighed the costs.

One final statistic reveals the consequences of the crack boom: “the homicide rate among urban blacks quadrupled” (103). Drug dealing is a competitive business and violence is one way to gain stature and enhance prospects for promotion.

[vetran]

Looked this seems to be the original article, this seems fascinating, the Capone approach seems to be the way to target the leaders then work down from them. I wonder why we don't do that?

Why Drug Dealers Live With Their Moms - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

J. T.'s single largest expense was the wage he paid himself: $8,500 a month, for an annual salary of about $100,000. There were roughly 100 leaders of J. T.'s stature within the Black Disciple network. These were the drug dealers who could indeed afford to live large, or -- in the case of the board of directors -- extremely large. Each of those roughly 20 directors stood to earn about $500,000 a year.

this is sad not surprising :

A crack gang works pretty much like the standard capitalist enterprise: You have to be near the top of the pyramid to make a big wage. But selling crack is a lot more dangerous than most menial labor. Anyone who was a member of J. T.'s gang for the four years covered in the notebooks stood a 1-in-4 chance of being killed. That’s more than five times as deadly as being a timber cutter, which the Bureau of Labor Statistics calls the most dangerous job in the United States.

[vetran]

In large criminal gangs, the leaders often sit at or near the top of a pyramid structure and are very well distanced from the foot soldiers on the streets. Most criminal gang members who get arrested are the small fry. There was a very eye opening chapter in the book 'Freakonomics' called 'Why Most Drug Dealers Live At Home With Their Mum' which explained this very well. There's always a willing supply of new recruits to replace those that get taken out of action at the bottom end.

Precisely hitting the gang leaders is the objective

will have a peek that makes sense living at how with their mum BRUV!!

[AtW]

Membership in a gang should be criminal offence in the first place

[BlasterBates]

Perfect so the defence counsel can explore that and discover the evidence behind it or point it out as factually incorrect.

It's a non-story, a prosecutor can still say someone is a member of a gang. Not a problem.

[edison]

Oh dear

Courts urged to avoid using the word with reference to criminals because of 'negative connotations' | Daily Mail Online


Here's an idea why not just lock a few more of the ring leaders up and the "gangs" stop existing.

In large criminal gangs, the leaders often sit at or near the top of a pyramid structure and are very well distanced from the foot soldiers on the streets. Most criminal gang members who get arrested are the small fry. There was a very eye opening chapter in the book 'Freakonomics' called 'Why Most Drug Dealers Live At Home With Their Mum' which explained this very well. There's always a willing supply of new recruits to replace those that get taken out of action at the bottom end.

[vetran]

These days jurors will assume a gang is a bunch of criminals. Language changes.

Perfect so the defence counsel can explore that and discover the evidence behind it or point it out as factually incorrect.