Reply to: Another Dinosaur Opens His Big Mouth...

[northernladuk]

My experience in a northern town too. Cricket does really become a thing until high school at which point the Pakistani and Indian lads we played football with switched choice of sports. We asked a couple of them why (they still enjoyed casual seven a side matches) and a large part was parental expectation. Wasim Akram was doing wonders for Lancashire at that point so it was easy to see why they would want to give cricket a go, no more than baseball would be a tough sell to any of us if we were to move to the USA I suppose.

Absolutely which is why much of what is going on is down to culture not race.. but god help anyone that tries to point that out in a debate.

[northernladuk]

Asian footballers call out 'systemic racism' in grassroots football - BBC Sport


BBC Asian Network - Nihal, Sporting Bengal - East London's Asian football club

Oh and stop stating the sterotype that South Asian's prefer cricket as you are showing you are a dinosaur too - When will a footballer of South Asian origin play for England's senior team? - BBC Three

How is calling themselves Sporting Bengal helping integration and equality? I never get why people do this.

[LondonManc]

I don't buy the individual anecdotes in terms of professional football, they just don't care at that level. That isn't to say the individual racism inflicted on them isn't very real.

I come from a northern mill town, South Asians I knew certainly loved their cricket, that's my anecdote, my observation.

My experience in a northern town too. Cricket doesn’t really become a thing until high school at which point the Pakistani and Indian lads we played football with switched choice of sports. We asked a couple of them why (they still enjoyed casual seven a side matches) and a large part was parental expectation. Wasim Akram was doing wonders for Lancashire at that point so it was easy to see why they would want to give cricket a go, no more than baseball would be a tough sell to any of us if we were to move to the USA I suppose.

[TheGreenBastard]

Asian footballers call out 'systemic racism' in grassroots football - BBC Sport


BBC Asian Network - Nihal, Sporting Bengal - East London's Asian football club

Oh and stop stating the sterotype that South Asian's prefer cricket as you are showing you are a dinosaur too - When will a footballer of South Asian origin play for England's senior team? - BBC Three

I don't buy the individual anecdotes in terms of professional football, they just don't care at that level. That isn't to say the individual racism inflicted on them isn't very real.

I come from a northern mill town, South Asians I knew certainly loved their cricket, that's my anecdote, my observation.

[SueEllen]

Nice anecdote, got any references? Nothing to do with South Asian culture and its disposition to cricket etc.

No elite football club can afford to be "racist", even Russian clubs don't give a crap if you're white, brown, black or purple (the fans are something else).

Asian footballers call out 'systemic racism' in grassroots football - BBC Sport


BBC Asian Network - Nihal, Sporting Bengal - East London's Asian football club

Oh and stop stating the sterotype that South Asian's prefer cricket as you are showing you are a dinosaur too - When will a footballer of South Asian origin play for England's senior team? - BBC Three

[vetran]

Only selecting white middle aged men is a form of discrimination, so yes, I agree with you, this practice should stop and the best person for the role should be appointed. Well made point there Vetty

Sort of proves my point your assumption that the choice of a white person is racist.

It appears the "best person for the job" was selected by the FA apparently without reference to their race , now if you want to change the criteria to include race then it becomes racist.

You realise the UK demographics have changed massively in the last 30 years.

Ethnicity and National Identity in England and Wales - Office for National Statistics

The White ethnic group accounted for 86.0 per cent of the usual resident population in 2011, a decrease from 91.3 per cent in 2001 and 94.1 per cent in 1991

So if you are looking for a senior person with 30 years experience in the UK a maximum of 19/20 suitable people will probably be white.

20 years experience 9/10 will be white.

10 years experience 17/20 white.

Now you could and probably should go international as the post is so important. So which of these 'horribly white' managers would you choose?

Top 10 Football Managers of All Time | League Managers.

or this horribly white selection in the top 100 though there are a few ladies who look like they wear comfortable shoes.

100 greatest football managers of all time | FourFourTwo

Apologies if there is a superb African manager I have missed.

If you are trying to fill a post based on modern quotas you are a racist. Best person for the job.

Maybe we can get Gary Lineker to black up - he is pretty woke.

[d000hg]

What's correct, incorrect and horrific changes so quickly and is often pretty similar.

You can refer to a black person (I think that's ok) but not "blacks" collectively.
You can't really use "people of colour" though you could before, but "coloured person" is awful. Although I thought that was an inclusive term (once) for anyone "of colour" not just black.

So initially I read the BBC story and couldn't see why he was being described as horrific/atrocious - those are pretty strong words.

But as S.E. points out, he's got form and one assumes it is more about the person than the specific words.

[TheGreenBastard]

I've watched and read some interesting stuff on South Asian footballers.

Generally once kids get above 12 if they blatantly come from a South Asian background they aren't chosen for football teams regardless of how good they are. This use to happen to those from East Asian backgrounds until commercial interests realised there was money having a couple of East Asian footballers on the pitch playing.

Nice anecdote, got any references? Nothing to do with South Asian culture and its disposition to cricket etc.

No elite football club can afford to be "racist", even Russian clubs don't give a crap if you're white, brown, black or purple (the fans are something else).

[SueEllen]

I'll leave you with this thought to put that all into context. Would you be happy flying on a plane knowing that the people who built it got the job because they were black or female rather than because they were the best person for the job? Thought not.

You mean like this current Tory government and their "tending" process? Just ensure you are married to a Tory MP or related to Dominic Cummings.

[SueEllen]

His point about demographics of football v IT made me smile and it's true though. I assume admitting this will make me a racist though?
.

I've watched and read some interesting stuff on South Asian footballers.

Generally once kids get above 12 if they blatantly come from a South Asian background they aren't chosen for football teams regardless of how good they are. This use to happen to those from East Asian backgrounds until commercial interests realised there was money having a couple of East Asian footballers on the pitch playing.

[LondonManc]

Look for Digital Team in google and look at the photos of the teams. All very gender and race balanced... but what's missing now?

WTF?

[northernladuk]

It does make me laugh when liberals talk about equality and fairness sometimes. The very liberals that tend to make up highly diverse forward thinking spunky digital teams. Ever tried being a 40+ year old trying to get a gig in these teams????

Look for Digital Team in google and look at the photos of the teams. All very gender and race balanced... but what's missing now?

[oracleslave]

women don't like being hit by balls,

Not even on their chin?

igmc

[LondonManc]

Only selecting white middle aged men is a form of discrimination, so yes, I agree with you, this practice should stop and the best person for the role should be appointed. Well made point there Vetty

What you've advocated here is equality of opportunity. What you wanted earlier up the page is equality of outcome, i.e. quotas, rather than best person for the job. If you wind back to the 80s, it was saddening to here regular monkey chants against John Barnes, etc. I witnessed away fans doing it to Viv Anderson when he played for United. That's without the bananas being thrown at them, etc.

Sad thing is that a lot of black players who were my playing generation (class of 92 era), witnessed this and the likes of Andy Cole thought "why bother". Football has made significant strides, even discounting Eric Cantona giving racism a kick in 1995, to try and move the game on. There are still racist idiots today, but they are now silenced, humiliated and banned rather than accepted as a sad norm.

On the management side, there have been, just as with white managers, good and bad black ones. Paul Ince had mixed fortunes but did okay at MK Dons. John Barnes proved pretty crap wherever he managed. Chris Hughton is well respected in the game. Wales have a mixed-race manager in charge of their national side.

The over-riding issues on top of this are personal desire and culture. Gina Ashray tells the real-life joke that to Nigerian mums, there are only four occupations: "Doctor, lawyer, engineer or a disappointment." How many recently-finished footballers who have made mega-millions, truly want to manage too? Yes, they talk about missing the craic in the dressing room, but lots of players do the whole legends thing. I know that Quinton Fortune and Dwight Yorke are still regulars for United legends for example and that's how they say they still enjoy it. More go into punditry and media - Ian Wright and Dion Dublin immediately spring to mind as going beyond football, while Rio Ferdinand, Patrice Evra and others are regulars on football shows. We also gravitate to what we want to do. If you were a schoolkid who didn't do well academically, why take on more of the academic side that management entails when you can do pretty much whatever you want?

I'll leave you with this thought to put that all into context. Would you be happy flying on a plane knowing that the people who built it got the job because they were black or female rather than because they were the best person for the job? Thought not.

[northernladuk]

Some old bloke using the old fashioned term "coloured" instead of black. People should focus on real racism not unintentional slip ups like that.

PS Dinosaur? Ageist!

I was listening to this and obviously the liberals waded in and were branding him everything under the sun. I really wish they could see it for what it is, which is exactly what xoggoth said. There is a big difference between a racist, homophobic and an out of date old man. Sadly the liberals don't see this which makes me glum. It's sad he's said it but he's irrelevant, lost his job and will be gone soon so move on and focus on the real issues.

His point about demographics of football v IT made me smile and it's true though. I assume admitting this will make me a racist though?

You ignored the rest of my post - we are no longer in the era of Trump and Corbyn.

It was a combination of his comments e.g. being gay is a life choice, women don't like being hit by balls, implying south asians aren't interested on being on the pitch and the fact he's said similar stuff years before that meant he had to go.

They are all in the same vein.. out of date. Nothing is inherently hate speech or is showing any true predjudices.. Just out of date and has no place in a position that he held. He doesn't hold it now. Karma is restored.