Reply to: But where are the deaths???

[SueEllen]

It shows how badly run the health service is, now how crap it is. The patient-facing staff, the ones who are doing the caring, are generally brilliant. The management/civil servants/hedge fund managers/politicians who are all trying to take their cut - that's where the problem lies.

How crap you view the NHS is, is linked to how you and your family have been treated particularly by the gatekeepers in primary care. And that's before you add on all those who are trying to make a quick buck out of it.

[Old Greg]

Worse. Accenture nicked them.

If it's any help, any time I visit Accenture offices, I openly load up my lappy rucksack with biccies. KPMG have better biccies and I usually pick up a few pens as well.

[NotAllThere]

Worse. Accenture nicked them.

Anyway, I had a look. Aligning the curves of hospitalisations with that of deaths, it seems there is improvement in the UK.
1 in 3 in the first wave, and 1 in 5 in the second wave.

[Old Greg]

You can do that here:
https://ibz-shiny.ethz.ch/covid-19-r...eWwj0H5gy3QzwE

Choose the UK, and you can see either hospitalised patients or death, then compare with another country (default compare with Switzerland). I'd get some numbers but I've a meeting to go to.

Cojak nicked all the choccy biccies again? Good luck with that.

[NotAllThere]

Excess deaths show that even with treatment, a non-trivial percentage of people with Covid die as a result of catching it, whether directly or indirectly. Even now, when we have a much better infrastructure and some treatments, some people die no matter what you do.

Trying to work out how many died who could've theoretically lived would be interesting but extremely difficult. We might compare CV deaths as a % of CV admissions between nations/different hospitals perhaps.

You can do that here:
https://ibz-shiny.ethz.ch/covid-19-r...eWwj0H5gy3QzwE

Choose the UK, and you can see either hospitalised patients or death, then compare with another country (default compare with Switzerland). I'd get some numbers but I've a meeting to go to.

[darmstadt]

It shows how badly run the health service is, now how crap it is. The patient-facing staff, the ones who are doing the caring, are generally brilliant. The management/civil servants/hedge fund managers/politicians who are all trying to take their cut - that's where the problem lies.

This, exactly this. Successive governments have for years paid more attention to the administrative side rather than the health side and this has only got worse with the recent run on Tories who are trying their damn best to privatise it as much as possible.

A good example of that is the current farce of which Dido Harding is presiding, the test and trace system run by private corporations (really shouldn't be called NHS Test and Trace) but then again it is not surprising, not only is her husband John Penrose, a Tory MP who is apparently the UK Anti-Corruption Champion but also a member of the 1828 group. This is a group which argues for the abolition and privatisation of the NHS but also for PHE (Public Health England.) Well PHE is being abolished and replaced by the National Institute for Health Protection and will be headed by none other than Dido Harding (albeit not privatised but on it's way to being)

1828 - Championing Freedom

1828

Hands off my NHS: Who is Dido Harding and what is 1828? | Candid Orange

Baroness Dido Harding: who is the new chief of the institute replacing Public Health England - and what will the national health body do? | Yorkshire Evening Post

[d000hg]

Excess deaths show that even with treatment, a non-trivial percentage of people with Covid die as a result of catching it, whether directly or indirectly. Even now, when we have a much better infrastructure and some treatments, some people die no matter what you do.

Trying to work out how many died who could've theoretically lived would be interesting but extremely difficult. We might compare CV deaths as a % of CV admissions between nations/different hospitals perhaps.

[Paralytic]

Deaths dropped markedly after they stopped counting people dieing 28 days after test...

[WTFH]

I saw some Covid documentary where some guy in his sixties had been in hospital 3 months after testing positive - he lived - however in the next room another guy who had been in slightly shorter died.

So excess deaths is the best measure as it shows how crap the health service is.

It shows how badly run the health service is, now how crap it is. The patient-facing staff, the ones who are doing the caring, are generally brilliant. The management/civil servants/hedge fund managers/politicians who are all trying to take their cut - that's where the problem lies.

[SueEllen]

Deaths dropped markedly after they stopped counting people dieing 28 days after test...

I saw some Covid documentary where some guy in his sixties had been in hospital 3 months after testing positive - he lived - however in the next room another guy who had been in slightly shorter died.

So excess deaths is the best measure as it shows how crap the health service is.

[Old Greg]

595 deaths in the last 24 hours, 50k mark

Covid: UK first country in Europe to pass 50,000 deaths - BBC News

The electors voted for incompetence, so stop being so anti-democratic.

[AtW]

Deaths dropped markedly after they stopped counting people dieing 28 days after test...

[SueEllen]

595 deaths in the last 24 hours, 50k mark

Covid: UK first country in Europe to pass 50,000 deaths - BBC News

Hasn't Door Matt asked for them to change the way it's counted? He did that last time it got bear 50k

[AtW]

595 deaths in the last 24 hours, 50k mark

Covid: UK first country in Europe to pass 50,000 deaths - BBC News

[d000hg]

I've mentioned multiple metrics. I mentioned deaths, and someone complained that includes everyone who dies within a month of a positive test regardless of cause. So I mentioned excess deaths and someone says that includes issues too.

The point is, all these metrics tell roughly the same story. The scale might be slightly different, but the shape of the graph is the same - testing level being broadly stable you see hospitalisations follow tests by a week or two, and deaths follow that by another fortnight.

If people think these metrics are lying, present a graph which contradicts the accepted narrative, and shows COVID deaths are not rapidly increasing.