Reply to: Question for all you BTL-ers.

[Paddy]

if you can explain to the agent the Landlord is misbehaving you may have a chance.

You want to exit the agreement, have a decent reference and get your deposit back. Only way you can do that is get the Agent on your side.

It could well be that the landlord has made an ambiguous contract by design and they are exercising their right to part of the property because they are apprehensive about tenants in general. Either way, if its a near standard tenancy agreement, the tenant does not stand a chance.

I will tell you two cases I know of.

Case one.
T went into a tenancy agreement with L. L verbally stated that T has the use of the garden terrace and the only access to the terrace was via T's flat. Some years later, L in the early hours of the morning, L reached the terrace by ladder and blocked up the door to the terrace. During the next week L built and extension without planning permission on the terrace.

T sued for access to the terrace. T lost as the judge said he needed implicit written permission to use the terrace otherwise the use would merely be considered as tolerated trespass by T. T was order to pay costs of the case to L. L then applied for retrospective planning permission.

Case two. (Reported Case about ten years ago)
T had a long term lease of the whole property including the marked boundary as per the land registry. The lease was protected under Sec 2 of the 1954 act. (The lease can be automatically renewed by T) The property was situated in the town centre. Every time L drove to the town, L parked on the land leased by T.

T regularly complained to L that T was blocking the way by parking on the land.

The time came for lease renewal but L objected on the grounds that T's complaints were harassment even though L was in the wrong.

It went as far as the High Court that found for L. Above all, in leases, the relationship and behaviour of a tenant to the Landlord is important.

Landlord and Tenant law is medieval, it dates back to serfdom.

Up until 1832 only landlords had the right to vote when the law was reformed to allow to men (not women) who occupied property with an annual value of £10 to vote. This still excluded most people. Most of the L&T laws were passed when landlords had the electoral power.

I think full suffrage was not until about 1918?

[d000hg]

If I was to rent a property in the UK under a 12 month STA, with no exclusions or clauses to use of buildings in the contract between myself and the Landlord, would the land register title plan be the go to as to what land and buildings are included in the rental?

They shouldn't just let themselves in, easy.

An 8 METRE fence did you say?!

[northernladuk]

if you can explain to the agent the Landlord is misbehaving you may have a chance.

You want to exit the agreement, have a decent reference and get your deposit back. Only way you can do that is get the Agent on your side.

Not really. How many posts do we see on here where contractor (or landlord), agent just wants to get on and let the property for free money in out money, not being punch bag for landlord AND tenant. All shake hands, smile and everyone is on their way.

Not all agreements need to end with someone misbehaving or with one party losing out.

[vetran]

She does so what I am saying is focus on that. IMO it shouldn't be difficult to convince both parties neither will budge so the only viable solution is to tear it up and move on. Not every landlord works like this so may have her work cut out. I was just saying I'd start down that direction rather trying the landlord to comply to what she wants and then trying a clean exit. They may not be so eager to meet halfway after a fight.

I don't believe you need to prove anyone has done anything illegal for all parties come out of this happy with the resolution.

if you can explain to the agent the Landlord is misbehaving you may have a chance.

You want to exit the agreement, have a decent reference and get your deposit back. Only way you can do that is get the Agent on your side.

[northernladuk]

Yes but in that case she needs to get out of the contract without penalty or a poor reference. if she can show their behaviour is illegal then the agent should supply a good reference.

She does so what I am saying is focus on that. IMO it shouldn't be difficult to convince both parties neither will budge so the only viable solution is to tear it up and move on. Not every landlord works like this so may have her work cut out. I was just saying I'd start down that direction rather trying the landlord to comply to what she wants and then trying a clean exit. They may not be so eager to meet halfway after a fight.

I don't believe you need to prove anyone has done anything illegal for all parties come out of this happy with the resolution.

[courtg9000]

For clarity the contract is in my name. CFL Jr gets paid in pretty shells & coloured beads by the NHS, so I am accountable for this one.

If she needs the reference, she was living with her dad!
Not a lot a landlord can say to that generally.

[vetran]

For clarity the contract is in my name. CFL Jr gets paid in pretty shells & coloured beads by the NHS, so I am accountable for this one.

Fair enough but I wouldn't want to pay a bad landlord any extra money or have trouble renting another property because of a reference.

[clearedforlanding]

Yes but in that case she needs to get out of the contract without penalty or a poor reference. if she can show their behaviour is illegal then the agent should supply a good reference.

For clarity the contract is in my name. CFL Jr gets paid in pretty shells & coloured beads by the NHS, so I am accountable for this one.

[clearedforlanding]

Sounds like he's tried that. Legal situation aside, this appear to be part of their life so I can't see for one minute they are going to stop it if they enjoy it. They are much more likely just to want CFL jnr to leave.

I can't see what is going to resolve this so personally I'd be spending more time discussing an exit clause thst suits both parties and moving on. OP mentions it doesn't feel like her house now and in my experience of renting that never comes back so time to move on I'd say.

You don't half impart some wise advice, despite all the "ask your accountant" posts.

[vetran]

Sounds like he's tried that. Legal situation aside, this appear to be part of their life so I can't see for one minute they are going to stop it if they enjoy it. They are much more likely just to want CFL jnr to leave.

I can't see what is going to resolve this so personally I'd be spending more time discussing an exit clause thst suits both parties and moving on. OP mentions it doesn't feel like her house now and in my experience of renting that never comes back so time to move on I'd say.

Yes but in that case she needs to get out of the contract without penalty or a poor reference. if she can show their behaviour is illegal then the agent should supply a good reference.

[northernladuk]

There is also something in L&T about "exclusive possession"; basically it meas if you pay your rent, then that is a fair deal and the landlord can'd then rabble on every five minutes about it being his property. Landlords can only have reasonable access. There is a bit about it here...

Shelter Legal England - What is a tenancy?

In any event, try and talk to them nicely about it first. It seems to me they want their cake and eat it too.

Sounds like he's tried that. Legal situation aside, this appear to be part of their life so I can't see for one minute they are going to stop it if they enjoy it. They are much more likely just to want CFL jnr to leave.

I can't see what is going to resolve this so personally I'd be spending more time discussing an exit clause thst suits both parties and moving on. OP mentions it doesn't feel like her house now and in my experience of renting that never comes back so time to move on I'd say.

[clearedforlanding]

It seems to me they want their cake and eat it too.

Exactly. Thank you for all the advice and effort.

[Paddy]

Its a minimum of 24 hours notice required.
Quiet enjoyment of property is the phrase your daughter needs for defence.
"The landlord is preventing my quiet enjoyment of the property." You are almost onto breach of contract with that.
I hope your daughter gets it sorted soon her job is very stressful as it is!
Landlord probably is unaware of landlord and tenant act - this would NOT surprise me.
Any questions ask and I know a few legal chaps and chappeses that work this field if you need them.

There is also something in L&T about "exclusive possession"; basically it meas if you pay your rent, then that is a fair deal and the landlord can'd then rabble on every five minutes about it being his property. Landlords can only have reasonable access. There is a bit about it here...

Shelter Legal England - What is a tenancy?

In any event, try and talk to them nicely about it first. It seems to me they want their cake and eat it too.

[wattaj]

What led you to the assumption I was being a clever bugger?

It would have been helpful to have this later clarity in your OP; it was this initial lack of clarity that lead to my earlier assumption.

[courtg9000]

Thank you. It's the hyper-frequency of the visits that are disturbing the quiet enjoyment of the property as well as the lack of notice. Imagine in the days you were renting your landlord and his wife wandering around your garden twice a week - it would drive me nuts.

Use the phrase Quiet enjoyment when talking to the agent.
Its all over the landlord and tenant act.
I am sorry I can't dig out the relevant bits for you. I am not very well and I have a stack to get through today.