Reply to: Racists' Anger Matters

[Old Greg]

Difficult for anyone with any sense to put any other interpretation on your post. You needn't bother to reply, you are on my ignore list.

Do you know anyone with sense to ask, because you're clearly incapable of basic reasoning?

[xoggoth]

I don't completely agree with the BLM/Antifa approach, but I'm not trying to imply that I'm a racist

Difficult for anyone with any sense to put any other interpretation on your post. You needn't bother to reply, you are on my ignore list.

[vetran]

Another typical thread implying that anyone who does not completely agree with the BLM/Antifa approach is racist.

Even a poll by the Daily Express showed a majority of their right-leaning readers did not think Colston's statues should have been on public display. Think most on the right of centre are ok with removal of public memorials to slave traders or people like Rhodes who vigorously pursued colonialism to impose the rule of an Anglo Saxon race he believed to be superior.

I would be quite happy with a plaque explaining. The person may be bad by current standards but in the times he lived he was a leading light. We should call this out and explain what they did wrong and what right.

[Old Greg]

Another typical thread implying that anyone who does not completely agree with the BLM/Antifa approach is racist.

Even a poll by the Daily Express showed a majority of their right-leaning readers did not think Colston's statues should have been on public display. Think most on the right of centre are ok with removal of public memorials to slave traders or people like Rhodes who vigorously pursued colonialism to impose the rule of an Anglo Saxon race he believed to be superior.

However, they do not agree with removing or defacing statues of people like Churchill or Nelson just because they may have had some racist views. No human is perfect, they are rightly honoured for what they did.

The most idiotic thing is the idea that a whole host of streets should be renamed just because they may have had some racist associations from centuries ago. What is the point of dragging up racist issues from the far past that hardly anyone is even aware of? Surely better to concentrate on today's problems. And what about the inconvenience to residents, having to notify every authority, company and person on their list? Could be very significant costs for businesses and presumably the Post Office and other delivery companies will have to allow for a wrong name for years.

Another xoggy strawman post. I don't completely agree with the BLM/Antifa approach, but I'm not trying to imply that I'm a racist.

Next!

[xoggoth]

Another typical thread implying that anyone who does not completely agree with the BLM/Antifa approach is racist.

Even a poll by the Daily Express showed a majority of their right-leaning readers did not think Colston's statues should have been on public display. Think most on the right of centre are ok with removal of public memorials to slave traders or people like Rhodes who vigorously pursued colonialism to impose the rule of an Anglo Saxon race he believed to be superior.

However, they do not agree with removing or defacing statues of people like Churchill or Nelson just because they may have had some racist views. No human is perfect, they are rightly honoured for what they did.

The most idiotic thing is the idea that a whole host of streets should be renamed just because they may have had some racist associations from centuries ago. What is the point of dragging up racist issues from the far past that hardly anyone is even aware of? Surely better to concentrate on today's problems. And what about the inconvenience to residents, having to notify every authority, company and person on their list? Could be very significant costs for businesses and presumably the Post Office and other delivery companies will have to allow for a wrong name for years.

[tazdevil]

What exactly do the racists want, apart from nothing to change?

It seems to me all the black protesters are asking is to be treated equally. To see the person and not the skin colour. That's a pretty basic request and something we all the power to do.

Haven't a clue what racists want because I don't know any. I know people who have an aversion to others but not normally because of the colour of their skin although cultural differences do cause division.

No problem with people being treated equally, it's what we should all do. We shouldn't indulge in unequal treatment either in a positive or negative way because all discrimination is bad whatever the sentiment behind it. However some people need to realise that they don't get stuff not because of discrimination but because they don't fit in some way such as the lads turned away from the night club for wearing the wrong shoes or northern people being despised by southerners and vice versa

[vetran]

Again, I don't believe anyone is saying 'only' white men were involved in the slave trade. And yes, we did eventually stop it but not before the likes of Bristol and London grew wealthy from it. In the UK though we only have statues and plaques praising those who made their fortune (or inherited it) through the slave trade; other countries (think Stone Town Slave market, Zanzibar in Tanzania) haven't hidden from their past but have explained it and have museums to it, to hopefully show how awful it was. Maybe Bristol needs a slave museum so visitors can understand how many black lives helped to build that city!

Re George Floyd, that death may not be 100% race motivated, but what it was, was another example of US police brutality resulting in a black man's death. And not just that, but we all heard him begging for his life, and we all saw him die and the police did nothing to help. I think this is the straw that broke the camel's back and resonated with so many black men who have been treated similarly. As a white man I've never had to face such prejudice, I'm lucky. But, luck shouldn't have to come into it - all people should be treated equally irrespective of skin colour. This is a basic fundamental and surely something we can achieve in our lifetime in Britain?

Bristol museums educating people about Bristol's part in the slave trade what a good idea!

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=slave+museum+b...e=search&ovr=1

This is rather interesting, also have a peek at the bottom of the page.

Bristol & the Transatlantic Slave Trade: Myths & Truths | Stories | Bristol Museums

It has resources for schools, books and the opportunity for the public to contribute. Maybe they will respond to your input?


OK now I agree your explanation of it being the straw that broke the Camels back seems reasonable. However it has been weaponised as usual. Mr Floyd was hardly a saint yet he is being painted as one. Mr Chauvin appears not to be the devil but they are painting horns on him.

Lets bring the other incidents and issues out and talk about those so we can solve them. Slavery ended 150 years ago when we realised it was very wrong and legislated against it. I think its time to take a leaf out of the Holocaust survivors and rebuild lives after it.

Each community has their own problems and the Black community needs to fix theirs. Defining what happens to them as always racially motivated seems to be one.

[Whorty]

Some of that seems perfectly reasonable. In fact equality is already required by law, the country is changing slowly.


Pity whenever they see oppression they only see the skin colour.

White man (well two white, one black & an Asian) restrains someone Black (admittedly brutally and fatally) and its racist. We still don't know, there is a suggestion from a witness that Chauvin knew Floyd from the nightclub they both worked at and they didn't like each other.

White police officer restrains someone black and the suspect's black mates put the boot in and no mention of race.

You know the slave trade was legal and we stopped it?

Agree adding plaques would be a good way to explain the history. Teaching history truthfully would be good as well. Blaming the white man for all slavery is not the truth as it is as old as the hills.

Again, I don't believe anyone is saying 'only' white men were involved in the slave trade. And yes, we did eventually stop it but not before the likes of Bristol and London grew wealthy from it. In the UK though we only have statues and plaques praising those who made their fortune (or inherited it) through the slave trade; other countries (think Stone Town Slave market, Zanzibar in Tanzania) haven't hidden from their past but have explained it and have museums to it, to hopefully show how awful it was. Maybe Bristol needs a slave museum so visitors can understand how many black lives helped to build that city!

Re George Floyd, that death may not be 100% race motivated, but what it was, was another example of US police brutality resulting in a black man's death. And not just that, but we all heard him begging for his life, and we all saw him die and the police did nothing to help. I think this is the straw that broke the camel's back and resonated with so many black men who have been treated similarly. As a white man I've never had to face such prejudice, I'm lucky. But, luck shouldn't have to come into it - all people should be treated equally irrespective of skin colour. This is a basic fundamental and surely something we can achieve in our lifetime in Britain?

[vetran]

What exactly do the racists want, apart from nothing to change?

It seems to me all the black protesters are asking is to be treated equally. To see the person and not the skin colour. That's a pretty basic request and something we all the power to do.

They also ask that history be properly explained and we don't revere certain people (mostly Victorians but others too) who may have done some good but also had some (arguably) racist views. Don't forget, many of these kind, generous, altruistic rich white men could only be so by exploiting/trading slaves.

History is very rarely simple but many of these statues only have plaques explaining the good but no reference to the bad. Probably time we took some of these old statues down and put them in a museum where we can properly explain the person, warts and all.

Some of that seems perfectly reasonable. In fact equality is already required by law, the country is changing slowly.


Pity whenever they see oppression they only see the skin colour.

White man (well two white, one black & an Asian) restrains someone Black (admittedly brutally and fatally) and its racist. We still don't know, there is a suggestion from a witness that Chauvin knew Floyd from the nightclub they both worked at and they didn't like each other.

White police officer restrains someone black and the suspect's black mates put the boot in and no mention of race.

You know the slave trade was legal and we stopped it?

Agree adding plaques would be a good way to explain the history. Teaching history truthfully would be good as well. Blaming the white man for all slavery is not the truth as it is as old as the hills.

[Whorty]

I'm shocked at your prejudicial stereotyping.

I was going to add a note to that, but left it as is to trigger a few on here

[Whorty]

No we would be discussing them sensibly and fixing the real issues. Unfortunately both sides seem to want their own way.

What exactly do the racists want, apart from nothing to change?

It seems to me all the black protesters are asking is to be treated equally. To see the person and not the skin colour. That's a pretty basic request and something we all the power to do.

They also ask that history be properly explained and we don't revere certain people (mostly Victorians but others too) who may have done some good but also had some (arguably) racist views. Don't forget, many of these kind, generous, altruistic rich white men could only be so by exploiting/trading slaves.

History is very rarely simple but many of these statues only have plaques explaining the good but no reference to the bad. Probably time we took some of these old statues down and put them in a museum where we can properly explain the person, warts and all.

[Old Greg]

As just posted to Gibbon, it's not only white people who can be racist, but this BLM movement is primarily racism against black people mostly instigated by white people. Let's remove this racism eh, where as white people our direct actions can actually make a change.

Re: Indians and Pakistanis disliking each other, well that's not a surprise is it? No one is saying that this racism doesn't exist but it's less prevalent in the UK, and has less of an impact on the life choices of these two communities; in the UK it will still be the white person's attitude to Indians or Pakistanis that will impact them more. Again, something we can personally make a positive with regards.

Re your mates, I wasn't asking you to defend them. They may be decent chaps. I was merely explaining my experience having lived in SA. It's also worth saying that the views of Afrikaners with Dutch ancestry was far more extreme than I ever heard from 'British' Saffers.

I'm shocked at your prejudicial stereotyping.

[Whorty]

Feel like I need to defend these guys, both are decent blokes. Did not spout racist crap.

The most racist thing I've heard was when I dropped off an Indian colleague at the train station. He did not like Pakistanis.

As just posted to Gibbon, it's not only white people who can be racist, but this BLM movement is primarily racism against black people mostly instigated by white people. Let's remove this racism eh, where as white people our direct actions can actually make a change.

Re: Indians and Pakistanis disliking each other, well that's not a surprise is it? No one is saying that this racism doesn't exist but it's less prevalent in the UK, and has less of an impact on the life choices of these two communities; in the UK it will still be the white person's attitude to Indians or Pakistanis that will impact them more. Again, something we can personally make a positive with regards.

Re your mates, I wasn't asking you to defend them. They may be decent chaps. I was merely explaining my experience having lived in SA. It's also worth saying that the views of Afrikaners with Dutch ancestry were far more extreme than I ever heard from 'British' Saffers.

[Whorty]

I was merely pointing out racism is not a white prerogative and it fully exists within BAME communities. But its quite ironic how you and OG go on about 'gammons' being triggered and then those poor Africans were so triggered (your words) that they slaughtered nearly a million people.

Firstly, I've not read all OG's posts but I've certainly never mentioned gammons, so stop making things up.

Also, no one is saying that only white people are racist, and that POC here in the UK, or anywhere else in the world, aren't racist. Racism exists across all countries in the world I would think, to a certain extent. But we're talking about our country and how to remove it from our society. Stop with the 'whataboutery' and think about what we can do in the UK to remove prejudice based on skin colour.

As for Rwanda, why not do a bit of reading on what caused the problems in their society, and the trigger points, (different to you being triggered ) then come back and have an adult conversation.

[Old Greg]

nah its hypocrisy on your part.

Off you for. See if you can demonstrate your assertion (hopefully in your usual style).

hypocrisy
noun [ U ]
disapproving
UK /hɪˈpɒk.rɪ.si/ US /hɪˈpɑː.krə.si/

C2

a situation in which someone pretends to believe something that they do not really believe, or that is the opposite of what they do or say at another time: