Reply to: Would the last person standing...

[Scoobos]

Sorry to hear that Whorty and apologies if I have indeed triggered you with any posts.

If you come in so hostile though, which you can do in some posts people will bite back.

In all honesty I didn't realise I'd posted that twice, call it fog of war due to my keyboard warrior behaviour this weekend.

All that said, I still think its perfectly acceptable to call BS and not just blindly support tulip leadership. My own situation isn't the driver for me, I've always hated externalisation or statistical justification - like its "only" the old, vulnerable etc ; these are all human beings. Also our behaviour in the UK does also influence this outbreak for the rest of the world , most of which is going to really suffer if it isn't stopped by climate etc. (africa etc)

But, if it counts for anything, your post has made me think and I'll try rein it in a little bit. General on contractor UK, despite its reputation, often does invoke some good debate / discussion though; even if many do pose their views in overly emotive ways.

[DealorNoDeal]

Move over Mr Cummings, there's a new disruptor in town

Cummings thought he was Distuptor Numero Uno but the virus has beaten him hands down.

Best laid plans of mice and men, and all that. Not so in control now are you Mr Cummings.

[Whorty]

...... snip ......

That's the second time you've posted that post from me - if we're going to say who's going personal, you did it first last week https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...ml#post2748708 - so before calling me out for being personal, take a look in the mirror first. And I responded to you last week too, so I suggest you read what I said then

In order to be transparent about my personal (motive? / Driver?) , its that my wife is vulnerable and it is very likely to seriously injure if not kill her. I've also worked with an NHS client for the past year and been (perhaps too closely) aware of this since late last year.

Snap, my good lady is vulnerable too - I'm her full time carer. We have other personal carers and nurses etc who also come daily/weekly to do various things. She's housebound and pretty much bedbound now. She's at an advanced stage of her life limiting illness. I'm also in a vulnerable group with asthma - if I get this virus it could well be goodnight Vienna for me

Fella, you're not the only person out there with something to lose. I'd be very surprised if there were many people in the UK who didn't have someone close who is vulnerable to some extent. Spreading fear won't help them, acting responsibly will. The best you can do is act right for you and your loved ones - practice good social distancing and don't put yourself at risk.

I still don't think I've been scaremongering, but perhaps I'm just overly sharing my own fear, subconciously. My post was a bit of a call for help - a.ka. " convince me otherwise" etc

Unfortunately, sharing your fear can easily slip into what looks like scaremongering.

If you need help, maybe General on CUK isn't the best place to ask for it. There are other forums out there that are more geared towards carers that may be better suited - feel free to PM me if you like and I can send you a link.

[Scoobos]

I think the problem may be that we sit on opposite sides, as far as this story goes.

Also, in the story above , the only thing that's rumour is my feelings on Boris - the Penlon article can be found very quickly, along with the 20% hospitalisation stat, etc etc.

If we are going to debate whats effective with "making people act responsibly" - I'd personally say that understanding the reality and risk of the situation to those in vulnerable groups , makes people act more responsibly. Saying its all a hoax, misinformation, overegged etc is not.

In order to be transparent about my personal (motive? / Driver?) , its that my wife is vulnerable and it is very likely to seriously injure if not kill her. I've also worked with an NHS client for the past year and been (perhaps too closely) aware of this since late last year.

If we are pulling old posts - here's one , that's arguably counter to your own argument of making people act responsibly : a death is a death, a single case with an R0 of 2 is not to be taken lightly.

"FFS sake, really? I expect oPM to believe every piece of crap on the internet, but I expected better from the rest of you!

We're 2-3 months in, and so far we have had 9 cases in the UK, 8 of whom are now clear. All these cases had links to China/SE Asia.

At a 2% mortality rate, with shall we say 75m people in the whole UK, we'd only get 1.5 million deaths if EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the UK was infected.

Let's think about that again ..... in 2-3 months we have 9 cases. And yet you're suggesting in the next 10 months this will jump to THE WHOLE UK POPULATION of (no more than) 75m.

I say it again ... FFS "

Apologies for playing the old post game - its easy with hindsight, I'm just trying to demonstrate how both 'excessive scaremongering' and 'excessive downplaying' are equally unhelpful.

I still don't think I've been scaremongering, but perhaps I'm just overly sharing my own fear, subconciously. My post was a bit of a call for help - a.ka. " convince me otherwise" etc

[Whorty]

Wow that's very personal. I'm not rising to it though, I don't think anything is scaremongering or spreading rumours. It's fact based , everything i listed above is fact based (assuming the DHSC is giving correct figures). Where's the evidence to suggest the rate of hospital admissions is failing?

Actually, on a re-read the cummings bit is not fact - but I never presented it as such - I said I was suspicious.

I've never stated anything about Boris as fact, in fact, I've said I don't want to believe it - but the guy does have a history of being a silly bugger .

Editing again - but "whatever they do" is not how I feel. All I wanted them to do was follow WHO advice - they didn't and saying "China didnt tell us" is not viable either - we all knew this was coming in Feb , they had a full month. They still aren't following WHO advice either and apparently have no intention to, they were woefully misguided. Herd immunity, nuff said.

More rant - Event201 , ignored by this party - trying to protect the economy and public health in London STILL today, is a scandal (imo). Flights coming in without testing, its not scaremongering it's our countries approach, completely ignoring WHO advice.

It wasn't aimed at you specifically although I do include you to the numbers on here who are calling fake news and conspiracy - you might keep saying, "I don't believe this but ...", but that's in the same vein as saying to someone "I respect what you say, but ...".

Below was posted by you a few days ago and is a typical example of a post that is not really helpful. It's a good deflection by saying, I don't agree with this, but then perpetuating the same narrative and thus agreeing with it.

If we all just think about what we're posting online about this virus, and how that might worry and trigger others, we can try to stem the flow of fear and hopefully the majority of people will act more responsibly. Like I say, not aimed just at you.

I'm really not believing they have it.. I'm also not accepting that I think this way, it's crackerjack.

But, it would just be ideal wouldn't it? They've made a few mistakes, got destroyed on QT , they are continuing to think we can have our cake and eat it, in regards to the economy and public health.

London already fears that Nightingale will effectively be a death camp, staffed by young doctors and retired NHS staff with no specific training , tulip PPE and , in the case of the retired are themselves are in the risk group.

Add to that, the ventilator manufacturer talking to BBC news on the radio on Friday saying that no orders have been made from him, why are they going to Dyson to invent something new, rather than help ramp up the production we already have at existing manufacturers, etc. (Penlon have been particularly outspoken on this).

It's pretty much given that we are only testing people on admission to hospital, and that 20% need hospitalisation. If this is accurate, our mortality rate is 1.28% , which isnt so bad .

It's easy for us to be critical of Trump's economy first strategy from over the pond, but I've always had a horrible suspicion since Trump effectively endorsed Boris for PM , that Boris is using the same play book, just a bit more tactfully.

If we are stil allowing flights in from NY to London now, with no testing, quarantine or anything combined with non-key workers being pressured to work and a rhetoric that 'we are starting to ramp up prodcution of PPE and ventilators' NOW ; we are not being looked after and the cracks will show.

We quarantine animals for rabies more strongly than we are people from the epicentre of the US outbreak.

Basically, if none of these people need hospitalisation, I'm calling BS. Please convince me otherwise as I feel like I'm going crackers!!

[eek]

Trust in China, if it ever existed, has almost certainly reached a new low. Forget about your trade deals - I don't think China is appreciating the damage this will do to their economy or the wrath Western leaders will have for them. Exporting tat is one thing, exporting viruses.. It'll be years before cool heads return to the table.

The uselessness of the PPE that China has sent will also not help matters...

[Scoobos]

Fact based complaining is fine, but what you and others are doing is spreading rumours and scaremongering.

I didn't vote for this government, I don't support them, but under the current circumstances I wouldn't want their job either. Whatever they do someone like you will complain that they aren't doing the right thing. But worse, you're also coming up with conspiracy theories; it seems, unless Boris, Cummings or one of their team dies of Covid-19 you won't actually believe they have the virus, anything less and you'll keep spreading the rumours that it's all fake news.

You see what I'm saying?

Wow that's very personal. I'm not rising to it though, I don't think anything is scaremongering or spreading rumours. It's fact based , everything i listed above is fact based (assuming the DHSC is giving correct figures). Where's the evidence to suggest the rate of hospital admissions is failing?

Actually, on a re-read the cummings bit is not fact - but I never presented it as such - I said I was suspicious.

I've never stated anything about Boris as fact, in fact, I've said I don't want to believe it - but the guy does have a history of being a silly bugger .

Editing again - but "whatever they do" is not how I feel. All I wanted them to do was follow WHO advice - they didn't and saying "China didnt tell us" is not viable either - we all knew this was coming in Feb , they had a full month. They still aren't following WHO advice either and apparently have no intention to, they were woefully misguided. Herd immunity, nuff said.

More rant - Event201 , ignored by this party - trying to protect the economy and public health in London STILL today, is a scandal (imo). Flights coming in without testing, its not scaremongering it's our countries approach, completely ignoring WHO advice.

Finally, to put perspective on it - its not scaremongering to say this - it would be to follow what some people are saying of 80% infection etc - It's not going to go anywhere near that, but the people losing their lives, or getting long term damage (potentially), are being too easily dismissed , every decision counts and you should be pretty damn confident to ignore the WHO. China with its billions didnt get anywhere near that, and they have no concept of personal space, spit quite a lot and have very dense cities.

[scooterscot]

What happens if the whole Boris cabinet all succumb to the virus?

Who runs the country then? Who'd want to?

[scooterscot]

There was a twitter feed on Saturday / yesterday which explained why the Government didn't do things earlier (sadly I can't find it atm)..

It's one reason why Governments are complaining about the information China provided everyone else, it sent everyone in the wrong direction until Italy started seeing cases and started providing more accurate information..

Heck 5 weeks ago I was looking at Easter in Milan while the twins were in Lourdes.

Trust in China, if it ever existed, has almost certainly reached a new low. Forget about your trade deals - I don't think China is appreciating the damage this will do to their economy or the wrath Western leaders will have for them. Exporting tat is one thing, exporting viruses.. It'll be years before cool heads return to the table.

[Whorty]

I get what you're saying, but you are doing this just the same as the rest of us.

Are you saying you've never complained on this forum, or we dont have a right to? Cos we do.

The fact these idiots get voted in is partly due to lack of criticism and intellectual (at times) debate , being a leader should put you in a position of increased scrutiny , not less.

Fact based complaining is fine, but what you and others are doing is spreading rumours and scaremongering.

I didn't vote for this government, I don't support them, but under the current circumstances I wouldn't want their job either. Whatever they do someone like you will complain that they aren't doing the right thing. But worse, you're also coming up with conspiracy theories; it seems, unless Boris, Cummings or one of their team dies of Covid-19 you won't actually believe they have the virus, anything less and you'll keep spreading the rumours that it's all fake news.

You see what I'm saying?

[cojak]

There was a twitter feed on Saturday / yesterday which explained why the Government didn't do things earlier (sadly I can't find it atm)..

It's one reason why Governments are complaining about the information China provided everyone else, it sent everyone in the wrong direction until Italy started seeing cases and started providing more accurate information..

Heck 5 weeks ago I was looking at Easter in Milan while the twins were in Lourdes.

Hmmm, now that is interesting...

[Hertsseasider]

My vote is that these daily briefings do not include ANY politician. All they do is spin and bollocks. Lets have more of Whitty. Harries etc. Tell it as it is, that is what we need to hear and understand

[eek]

I appreciate that the Government is incompetent regarding not starting things early enough when China was struggling.

But that incompetence could be many politician's downfall.

A competent German politician committed suicide at the weekend because of coronavirus - just bear that in mind.

There was a twitter feed on Saturday / yesterday which explained why the Government didn't do things earlier (sadly I can't find it atm)..

It's one reason why Governments are complaining about the information China provided everyone else, it sent everyone in the wrong direction until Italy started seeing cases and started providing more accurate information..

Heck 5 weeks ago I was looking at Easter in Milan while the twins were in Lourdes.

[Scoobos]

I get what you're saying, but you are doing this just the same as the rest of us.

Are you saying you've never complained on this forum, or we dont have a right to? Cos we do.

The fact these idiots get voted in is partly due to lack of criticism and intellectual (at times) debate , being a leader should put you in a position of increased scrutiny , not less.

[Whorty]

Again, I'm suspicious that he has it - it would be a good thing to say he's running away like the massive idjit he is, because he's positive - not because he's shat himself.

The public need to go to hospital , which today means we need to literally be turning blue, to get a test; and these slugs get them when they can just stay home- is annoying.

I get why many think this, but at the end of the day these are the people running our country, and as much as we might not like them, their policies, did not vote for them, they are our leaders. As such, they get treated differently to us. If we feel so strongly about this, we should put ourselves forward for public office ourselves instead of just sitting on our arses and complaining.

Boris is a dick, Cummings (at best) a twunt, Raab a prime idiot but, they are in charge. At times like this we need someone in charge so we have a semblance of control (however loose) else we will have real chaos.

Suck it up chaps .... or go set yourself up as a saviour of the public and go and do something constructive rather than just whinging on a forum but adding zilch value.

You're welcome