Reply to: Bring back the death penalty?

[vetran]

Evil is a bollox concept. Bad genes are only one factor, nutrition, brain damage, life experiences and upbringing are all major factors. Main problems with executions are:

a) Risk of doing the wrong person, no chance of later acquittal
b) That risk may make juries more wary of conviction, allowing more guilty to get off
c) Since there is no evil, is it always fair to blame people for what they do? If you are brain damaged is it your fault? If you had an upbringing like Rose West's would you be any better?

Being practical you have to protect the public and lock people up while they are a risk. Execution is over the top.

Excellently put as always.

[xoggoth]

some people are born with evil genes

Evil is a bollox concept. Bad genes are only one factor, nutrition, brain damage, life experiences and upbringing are all major factors. Main problems with executions are:

a) Risk of doing the wrong person, no chance of later acquittal
b) That risk may make juries more wary of conviction, allowing more guilty to get off
c) Since there is no evil, is it always fair to entirely blame people for what they do? If you are brain damaged or have suffered some appallingly traumatic experience is it your fault? If you had an upbringing like Rose West's would you be any better?

Being practical you have to protect the public and lock people up while they are a risk. Execution is over the top.

[vetran]

You were the one who proposed that some people are born with evil genes. I merely observed that's no different from the doctrine of original sin.

At least Christianity proposes redemption of those with evil genes, rather than your favoured method of simply disposing of them. Like human rubbish. Of course that's predicated on you having good genes. Which smacks a little of self-righteousness. And you talk about repugnancy... It's nice to know that good old hypocrisy isn't limited to the religious.

Ah projecting again.

I believe and am supported by facts that certain people will be born with certain attributes and predispositions both physically & behaviourally. When you combine that with a certain upbringing then crime may well follow. I also believe that if we identify these people and give them support then they may avoid the criminal life ahead of them. This is neither repugnant or hypocritical, I see it the same as identifying dyslexia and treating that, a child is not responsible for being Dyslexic are they?

This is a case in point.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/94...-army-iraq-war

An unbelievably brave & respected man used to be a drug dealer. What would have happened if the good guys had got to him & his friends earlier?

and just for Balance

Bullingdon Club members are escorted off site by college | Daily Mail Online

The Bullingdon club was quite good at finding sociopaths.

I did not suggest we should execute this person who chose to commit a disgusting crime to satisfy his desires.

I said I was not adverse to him spending a long time in Prison and a bit of rough justice at the hands of other inmates who are as disgusted with his behaviour as we are.

In his case I doubt he can reform, congratulations if you believe he can, so shall we send him to live with you then?

Plenty of experts believe that nature has a significant part in our actions.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/naturevsnurture.html

and for evidence

https://www.livescience.com/47288-tw...-genetics.html

Twins raised apart have similar mannerisms and IQs. Genetics control IQ. Why would their criminal behaviour not be related as well?

The fact you and others assume that saying nature is a factor in adult behaviour is right wing or that we should not consider it if we are to prevent bad behaviour. Its a testament to your stupidity that you extrapolate this to Eugenics and the Final solution not intervention & support.

The church believe children are all guilty and will burn in hell until some sort of archaic ritual has been performed by a bloke in a frock, because innocent children must pay for the sin of Adam & Eve etc. Sounds like bollocks to me, sorry if you think its the same thing. Another reason to ridicule the sky fairies.

[Zigenare]

You were the one who proposed that some people are born with evil genes. I merely observed that's no different from the doctrine of original sin.

At least Christianity proposes redemption of those with evil genes, rather than your favoured method of simply disposing of them. Like human rubbish. Of course that's predicated on you having good genes. Which smacks a little of self-righteousness. And you talk about repugnancy... It's nice to know that good old hypocrisy isn't limited to the religious.

Not limited to but certainly more apparent.

Bless me Father for I have sinned...

Don't worry my son, just keep up the direct debits to the Church and you'll be ok.

[NotAllThere]

not everyone believes in Sky Fairies. Which profess a particularly repugnant part of crime fighting and blame culture.

Some believe Nature is important as is nurture. It seems the figures agree with us. Scumbags beget scumbags.

You were the one who proposed that some people are born with evil genes. I merely observed that's no different from the doctrine of original sin.

At least Christianity proposes redemption of those with evil genes, rather than your favoured method of simply disposing of them. Like human rubbish. Of course that's predicated on you having good genes. Which smacks a little of self-righteousness. And you talk about repugnancy... It's nice to know that good old hypocrisy isn't limited to the religious.

[vetran]

Ah - the theory of original sin.

not everyone believes in Sky Fairies. Which profess a particularly repugnant part of crime fighting and blame culture.

Some believe Nature is important as is nurture. It seems the figures agree with us. Scumbags beget scumbags.

[NotAllThere]

...they had to eliminate all the bad genes...

Ah - the theory of original sin.

[DoctorStrangelove]

After the Japanese hanged those chaps the other day, there was a debate on the PM programme about how difficult it was to do it properly.

Maybe someone should have taken notes when they were watching Pierrepoint.

He didn't seem to have many problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Pierrepoint

I don't think any of them strangled and I don't think any lost their heads either.

Naturally enough, the Septics in their barbaric way have invented cruel & unusual ways of executing people, Ole sparky for one, and the gas chamber for the other.

[Mordac]

Well you could argue the US is civilised....

But I do feel sometimes we get very 'smug' about how civilised we are because of the way we treat 'criminals'

I am just waiting for the day when the aliens land and have that perfect crime free society we always craved and when asked they simple said that to achieve it they had to eliminate all the bad genes, and then they wondered why we kept our criminals alive.

Wonder if we will feel so smug then.

It is the hard decisions and not the easy ones which have the most impact.

You could, but I wish you luck on that one...

[original PM]

I notice there are no civilised countries on that list...

Well you could argue the US is civilised....

But I do feel sometimes we get very 'smug' about how civilised we are because of the way we treat 'criminals'

I am just waiting for the day when the aliens land and have that perfect crime free society we always craved and when asked they simple said that to achieve it they had to eliminate all the bad genes, and then they wondered why we kept our criminals alive.

Wonder if we will feel so smug then.

It is the hard decisions and not the easy ones which have the most impact.

[Old Greg]

I would like to see some proportion in the sentencing. I don't think that happened here.

I agree that the sentence was too lenient (although that may be a problem with the guidelines, rather than the sentencing judge).

[Mordac]

That would be an impressive list of countries to beat on the global leader board.

I notice there are no civilised countries on that list...

[Lockhouse]

If I've got a mad dog I take it outside and shoot it. It's the kind thing to do.

[original PM]

So the part for me is

'He then raped her again despite being interrupted by the victim’s friends who had come to find her.'

So he was stopped and then just carried on.

That shows a complete and utter lack of interest in accepting that that particular girl and I imagine other people have any value or worth - simply things for this man to use for fun.

And that is really why the death penalty should be used he is never going to change or rehabilitate because he does not view anything he is doing as wrong - therefore save the tax payer some money.

[GreenMirror]

I expect that all the armchair hangmen would like to see all the perpetrators of the 100,000 or so rapes and sexual assaults by penetration that occur each year executed, especially those who are already in relationships with their victims, where the breach of trust should be seen as an aggravating factor.

I would like to see some proportion in the sentencing. I don't think that happened here.