Originally posted by eek
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Reply to: Cry me a puddle
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Previously on "Cry me a puddle"
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Originally posted by BrilloPad View PostExactly this. HMRC should pursue the creators and advisors for 10,000% of the tax due where the legislation does not work.
That should not include retrospective legislation. Which is legal in only a few countries in the world. Its even illegal in Zimbabwe.
I would agree that these people are being hit very very hard but I don't think it's retrospective. I just think the advisors were being both greedy and clever and that cleverness has come back to bite them
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Originally posted by NotAllThere View PostThe neat one about this is that the scheme involved leverage, so although the subscribers save, e.g.100K of tax, because the scheme now doesn't work, they're liable for 1M tax - or more.
Of course the creators of the scheme, HSBC IIRC, get away scot free.
That should not include retrospective legislation. Which is legal in only a few countries in the world. Its even illegal in Zimbabwe.
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Originally posted by SueEllen View PostWhat I meant if you want to ensure you get your debt repaid from your debtors making them bankrupt isn't going to do it.
And even if a few of them do go bankrupt, at least some of the money will have been recovered. The alternative of leaving them alone or putting them on repayment plans usually ends up costing honest tax payers - i.e., your typical Contractor - even more.
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Originally posted by SueEllen View PostWhat I meant if you want to ensure you get your debt repaid from your debtors making them bankrupt isn't going to do it.
As for the publicity, HMRC don't seem to have been the ones making this public. It seems to be one of the scheme organizers in a desperate attempt to fix the issue. Sadly it ain't going to work - the organizer created a scheme that falls into the loaned income tax calculator rather than the film investment calculator - it just means the starting figure is so much higher..
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Originally posted by SueEllen View PostWhat I meant if you want to ensure you get your debt repaid from your debtors making them bankrupt isn't going to do it.
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What I meant if you want to ensure you get your debt repaid from your debtors making them bankrupt isn't going to do it.
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Originally posted by SueEllen View PostBit stupid of HMRC.
Loan amount £30,000 (treated as if after tax).
Income required to receive £30,000 after tax = £50,000.
Tax owed £50,000 - £30,000 = £20,000.
Ni is also then required but I'm not going to calculate the figures.
So the real problem here is that the members joined a scheme of type a (film investment) which also incorporated a loan element for which there are clear cut rules for calculating the tax owed.
The fact the loan was leveraged rather than a just returning "loaned" income is irrelevant to HMRC, to them it just a failed loan scheme so the tax being charged is based on the member being part of a failed loan scheme.
At least as with the publicity this is going to get its in the news and people may think - tax avoidance when I don't fully understand the scheme - that may not be such a good idea.
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The neat one about this is that the scheme involved leverage, so although the subscribers save, e.g.100K of tax, because the scheme now doesn't work, they're liable for 1M tax - or more.
Of course the creators of the scheme, HSBC IIRC, get away scot free.
Leave a comment:
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Cry me a puddle
Celebrities including Sir Alex Ferguson and Sven-Goran Eriksson face huge tax bills | Daily Mail Online
Hundreds of celebrities including Sir Alex Ferguson and Sven-Goran Eriksson face huge tax bills after being ordered to repay up to 20 times their investment in an avoidance scheme
Football managers among the 780 investors spread across 39 partnerships
£2.2b poured into film investment schemes to exploit industry tax breaks
HMRC revealed it will be demanding sums far in excess of those invested
One adviser claimed as many as 700 of the 780 involved could go bankruptTags: None
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