Reply to: One for the Bremainers #613

[WTFH]

In scenario 1 the UK Parliament retains the power to withdraw from TTIP.

True, but the Brexit campaign is based on that being false.

[Old Greg]

There's a huge difference.

1) If it's signed into EU law (Post Remain), it can never be repealed. Only the break up of the EU, or if the EU Commissioners decided to repeal it (say because of huge civil unrest across the EU) can reverse it.

2) If it's signed into UK law (Post-Exit), we just vote in whichever party has repealing TTIP in it's manifesto.

Imagine living in a world (country), where our government decides to implement an energy policy to encourage renewables. "Drill 'n' Spill Inc." in America, can sue the UK Government as it believes this is having an adverse effect on their profits from Fracking.

This is the sort of agreement that is being drafted right now behind closed doors in the EU, and there's sweet FA anyone can do to influence it. Except by using common sense and voting Leave.

In scenario 1 the UK Parliament retains the power to withdraw from TTIP.

[SueEllen]

The proposals for TTIP have been pretty explicit in stating it does not cover public health.

That is because there have been lots of petitions - I think I've signed a petition on it 3 times - by different campaign groups within the EU demanding that public health is removed from TTIP.

In fact in one way we should hope Trump becomes president as TTIP will never be agreed then.

[minestrone]

Because US companies, under TTIP, will be able to provide medical services. That's probably why Cameron supports it - the Tories would love to privatise full the NHS, but of course can't say so out loud.

The proposals for TTIP have been pretty explicit in stating it does not cover public health.

[NotAllThere]

and because that won't happen its alright then?

Don't be silly. I'm against TTIP. Just because I think Britain should remain in the EU, doesn't mean I think TTIP is a good idea. In other countries, there's quite fierce resistance to it.

Why would that happen?

Because US companies, under TTIP, will be able to provide medical services. That's probably why Cameron supports it - the Tories would love to privatise full the NHS, but of course can't say so out loud.

[minestrone]

Imagine living in a world (country), where our government is sued by a US private medical company wanting to provide services to the NHS.

Why would that happen?

[DimPrawn]

Billionaire investor George Soros has warned that a Brexit vote this month would make the breakup of the EU “almost certain”. Soros – who shot to fame in 1992 as the man whose $10bn (£6.9bn) bet against the pound broke the Bank of England – has switched more of his fortune into gold as he anticipates possible shockwaves from a leave vote in the EU referendum. “If Britain leaves, it could unleash a general exodus, and the disintegration of the European Union will become practically unavoidable”

[vetran]

Imagine living in a world (country), where our government is sued by a US private medical company wanting to provide services to the NHS.

and because that won't happen its alright then?

both are bad.

[DodgyAgent]

I don't know. Probably David Cameron, he's a Tory turd and I don't like him. Luckily at the moment we as a nation can vote him and his party out of power, so the next party can repeal any laws that have been passed.

Try doing that with the EU Commission and their "Appointed, not Elected" and Unaccountable law makers..

This is really fascinating. Would Cameron have negotiated a TTIP directly with e Americans on behalf of the British people?
He would not have dared do anything that might be seen to privatise the NHS. He is using the EU to implement the policy instead. He therefore gets his way without having to take responsibility.
Had we not been in the EU TTIP would not have got off the starting blocks.

[NotAllThere]

...Imagine living in a world (country), where our government decides to implement an energy policy to encourage renewables. "Drill 'n' Spill Inc." in America, can sue the UK Government as it believes this is having an adverse effect on their profits from Fracking....

Imagine living in a world (country), where our government is sued by a US private medical company wanting to provide services to the NHS.

[rl4engc]

The whole TTIP thing whether we are in or out is a disgrace - being out just means we have to agree our own terms rather than the ones which have already been agreed by the EU without consulting anyone.

There's a huge difference.

1) If it's signed into EU law (Post Remain), it can never be repealed. Only the break up of the EU, or if the EU Commissioners decided to repeal it (say because of huge civil unrest across the EU) can reverse it.

2) If it's signed into UK law (Post-Exit), we just vote in whichever party has repealing TTIP in it's manifesto.

Imagine living in a world (country), where our government decides to implement an energy policy to encourage renewables. "Drill 'n' Spill Inc." in America, can sue the UK Government as it believes this is having an adverse effect on their profits from Fracking.

This is the sort of agreement that is being drafted right now behind closed doors in the EU, and there's sweet FA anyone can do to influence it. Except by using common sense and voting Leave.

[original PM]

Erm, that's a report on how the negotiating of the document is going. Where's the link to the document?



That's alright then. As long as US corporations can still sue HM Government, or any of it's departments. All is OK.

That last part is really they key thing.

Effectively if we or the EU make a law (such as the smoking ban) then it means US corporations can sue said body for a loss of earnings.

That in itself is is such a ridiculous statement

I wonder if it can be applied retrospectively - e.g. UK has gun laws and so there is no market for UK gun manufacturers - so they can sue the UK government for loss of sales.

The whole TTIP thing whether we are in or out is a disgrace - being out just means we have to agree our own terms rather than the ones which have already been agreed by the EU without consulting anyone.

[rl4engc]

there you go:

European Commission publishes report on state of play of TTIP negotiations - Trade - European Commission

Erm, that's a report on how the negotiating of the document is going. Where's the link to the document?

doesn't look like the NHS would be open to legal action

That's alright then. As long as US corporations can still sue HM Government, or any of it's departments. All is OK.

[BlasterBates]

Well done, you've posted a link to the TTIP website. Now would you be as good to provide a link to the full document text?

You know the one, it's the one that MEPs have to go into a little room with a pen and paper to inspect. That they can't copy it out verbatim.

CLUE: If you have a link to the full document text, I'd expect it to start "http://wikileaks.org/" and you can rightly claim your place in history with the likes of Edward Snowden and Chealsea Manning.

there you go:

European Commission publishes report on state of play of TTIP negotiations - Trade - European Commission

[BlasterBates]

Currently the UK can veto TTIP if it wants and some countries have already vetoed sections from proposed bits of the treaty.

The currently negotiations are looking to exempt the NHS from legal action and since the UK would almost certainly veto it if they didn't it doesn't look like the NHS would be open to legal action.

If the UK leaves the EU though it might end up signing up to TTIP as part of it's EU deal, in that case it couldn't veto it.