Reply to: Reality bites for gradiuates!

[AtW]

Student financing under Thatcher required initiative...

[vetran]

Right. Like this one in the middle.
https://www.facebook.com/sixteenthCg...type=3&theater

I am in, or i wish anyway......

Oh yes I would, imagine her & a Lucy Woresley sandwhich?

[NotAllThere]

I think my student loan cost £13 per month to pay off. But then it was only £800.

what are these "student loans" of which you speak?

[garnet]

We have a shortage off maths and physics teachers. Let's boost the number of, erm, history teachers?

Right. Like this one in the middle.
https://www.facebook.com/sixteenthCg...type=3&theater

I am in, or i wish anyway......

[VectraMan]

I think my student loan cost £13 per month to pay off. But then it was only £800.

[tomtomagain]

How do you amass 42k of debt from 27k of fees? Sounds like he's funded a three-year p1ss up on top of his fees.

It's easy.

Course fees 9k per year.

Living expenses 5k per year.

Total 14k x 3 year course = £42k.


Not only do they have to pay the course fees .... but even students need somewhere to live and something to eat.

[vetran]

Martin Lewis's take he is normally pretty good at explaining issues.

The viral letter about mis-sold student loans due to retrospective interest hikes is well meaning, but wrong - Martin Lewis' Blog...

However, while I agree with the sentiment – and the fact many students have been outrageously mis-sold loans due to changes – the content of the letter isn’t technically correct, and shows a continued general misunderstanding of how student finance works, that could mislead some.

So not to attack where he’s coming from, but to ensure people understand their own loans, I wanted to bash out a quick blog just explaining the situation (for a beginner’s guide to how loans really work see Student Loans Mythbusting).

This I think is key

For students who started university in 2012, it was said that the £21,000 level at which you start repaying would rise annually with average earnings from 2017. Last year the Government backtracked on that. So now it’s frozen until at least 2021, when they’ll then review it.

In practice this means students will pay more each year. Here’s an example to explain…

Imagine it’s 2021 and the threshold has increased to £23,000 a year and you earn £24,000 – you’d repay 9% of the £1,000 gap, so £90 a year. Yet as the threshold is frozen at £21,000 you have to repay 9% of the £3,000 gap, so three times as much: £270 a year.

[vetran]

History student:

University Challenge contestant Joly de Lotbiniere charged with rape and sexual assault | Daily Mail Online

History graduate Bartholomew Cuthbert Joly de Lotbiniere will go on trial next year accused of a string of sex attacks including rape, two sexual assaults and an attempted sexual assault on the same alleged victim.

why trial next year? its May, leave him hanging for another 6 months minimum.

[bobspud]

Fact is - maths/physics require far more intellect than history/english/media studies.

Maths is not hard if you have a mathematical brain. My 13 year old son can run rings round kids 5 years older than him because he gets it. I am expecting to have to find a way to send him to MIT as I have no doubt he could actually be a rocket scientist. But watching him try and do english homework is like pulling teeth because he is not really interested.

I get the part about needing to be able to understand the maths and all the theorems in the STEM subjects. but actually Emotional intelligence tends to be lower in those people because they tend to want to think in facts not feelings.

MeeJA studies sounds like a cop-out until you take the creative writing styles and subjective examination of a play or film and teach the class to break down the subject and describe it. No use until you have to sit though a business presentation written by a STEM grad

I have lost count of the number of ex-engineers that I have met that want to be Architects but can't describe what they are looking at or what they trying to get a third party to achieve when you take their hands off the physical medium. I get sick of low level designs that basically barf up a cisco config or bunch of IP addresses but cannot explain the services or their dependancies.

even when you break it down into something as easy as UML...

So yes the guy is upset that he got screwed by the government before he even started work. I don't blame him and I hope he gets a win because that will end the cozy little business of screwing kids before they know what a loan is and what it will do to them when they need a mortgage later on.

[DimPrawn]

History student:

University Challenge contestant Joly de Lotbiniere charged with rape and sexual assault | Daily Mail Online

History graduate Bartholomew Cuthbert Joly de Lotbiniere will go on trial next year accused of a string of sex attacks including rape, two sexual assaults and an attempted sexual assault on the same alleged victim.

[The_Equalizer]

Believe me the university Alumni group will try their hardest....

Agreed. They certainly are persistent.

[eek]

It's not as if the student will give them more should they do extremely well out of undertaking a degree.

Believe me the university Alumni group will try their hardest....

[original PM]

Are the universities not now selling a product? Every university has to display the Unistats figures with each course:

gov.uk - Unistats

Basically, enrolling in a degree programme not dissimilar to buying a car. The risk universities now take is not getting enough students to make the programme worthwhile. I can't see how they should be liable thirty years down the line for a student's debt. It's not as if the student will give them more should they do extremely well out of undertaking a degree.

Yes indeed they are - and people need to see it as that

Potentially if you get a degree you could end up earning more and so the initial cost is worth it.

If you decide against getting a degree you may hit a glass ceiling.

However does the ability to get a degree guarantee anything for an employer?

[d000hg]

I've done both. The level of knowledge and ability required to get through a humanities degree and get a 2i is considerably less than that required for maths. Not to say, however, that both don't require hard work. However, humanities subjects are mainly about writing essays that regurgitate facts and arguments. Originality is not required, except to get a first, or at masters level and above.

A good maths student can easily get a degree in history etc. The converse is not true.

I'm not sure that's true. Anyone smart can probably get a good history degree whereas maths requires a more specialised type of smartness some people - even very smart people - don't have. But that's different, not lower, levels of intelligence... I could get a 2:1 in maths without much effort, but I'd have to put in a lot of hours for a history degree. I don't think it's helpful or fair to say one subject is easier or harder than another... anyway even within science subjects if you look at biology or to a lesser extent chemistry they can be a lot about regurgitating knowledge. Biology probably as much as history.

[The_Equalizer]

At the moment the student and government are taking the risk, the universities should take some risk as well.

Are the universities not now selling a product? Every university has to display the Unistats figures with each course:

gov.uk - Unistats

Basically, enrolling in a degree programme not dissimilar to buying a car. The risk universities now take is not getting enough students to make the programme worthwhile. I can't see how they should be liable thirty years down the line for a student's debt. It's not as if the student will give them more should they do extremely well out of undertaking a degree.