Reply to: Which PM Methodology?

[SimonMac]

Not yet but I've put a website up....

As a new WordPress user, you should go to your dashboard to delete this page and create new pages for your content. Have fun!

On a website about bad planning and oversights, this is a great start

[eek]

Can we pre-order?

Not yet but I've put a website up....

And found a prime example to start with

[original PM]

1 weakness of agile is that I'm seeing it being used to allow the customer to skip any requirement gathering before work begins.... This is especially the case where its impossible to pin down 3rd party dependencies and requirements...

Agile then allows people to explicitly state assumptions and start development...

Yes Agile is not an excuse to not properly gather requirements..

It never has been.

It should be about a more flexible way of delivering what is needed by a few phases rather than doing all the coding, delivering what people thought they wanted 8 months ago and then having to do loads of rework.

Every software project I have been on has needed rework but almost every project had nothing in the plan.

Which is just naive.

[anonymouse]

1 weakness of agile is that I'm seeing it being used to allow the customer to skip any requirement gathering before work begins.... This is especially the case where its impossible to pin down 3rd party dependencies and requirements...

Agile then allows people to explicitly state assumptions and start development...

It seems to depend on how they are using Agile, most sites (that I've worked on) don't have enough product owners to cover all the sprints. Therefore, the BA does the requirements up front, producing the basic user stories. The BA then becomes the product owner during the development sprint (along with being the tester as well). Any disagreements/design changes can be taken up with the true product owner during the build.

[eek]

it depends - are you actually trying to deliver a project or just go through the motions and produce lots of paperwork showing why the project failed?

Agile is difficult to do with 3rd parties as the charging model becomes very vague or you do a per day charge and the cost can become high if not well managed

Prince is better as you can get the 3rd party suppliers to costs against clear deliverables problem is as some people struggle to define requirements you often find when the product is delivered everybody wants to do a bit of a tweak and so you become sort of Agile.

1 weakness of agile is that I'm seeing it being used to allow the customer to skip any requirement gathering before work begins.... This is especially the case where its impossible to pin down 3rd party dependencies and requirements...

Agile then allows people to explicitly state assumptions and start development...

[original PM]

it depends - are you actually trying to deliver a project or just go through the motions and produce lots of paperwork showing why the project failed?

Agile is difficult to do with 3rd parties as the charging model becomes very vague or you do a per day charge and the cost can become high if not well managed

Prince is better as you can get the 3rd party suppliers to costs against clear deliverables problem is as some people struggle to define requirements you often find when the product is delivered everybody wants to do a bit of a tweak and so you become sort of Agile.

[SpontaneousOrder]

https://www.axelos.com/best-practice.../prince2-agile

I have no idea what that involves - I just saw someone tweet about it.

But... I strongly suspect that 'Agile' or PRINCE2 is a false dichotomy.

[eek]

If its anything like the CUK Cookbook we will be waiting a long time

I currently have free time on my schedule between 8am to 4pm so plenty of time to look busy at the moment....

[SimonMac]

Can we pre-order?

If its anything like the CUK Cookbook we will be waiting a long time

[cojak]

Prince 2 gives you the ability to understand what all the paperwork is for.

Agile is the latest buzz word.

Personally I would suggest my forthcoming book on The Panic Methodology. This is designed to reflect the practical management of projects rather than the ideal theory other methodologies favour...

Can we pre-order?

[eek]

That is what I am seeing, more structured Prince working at the Portfoilio / Programmes level, with Agile Projects delivering it.

Which I think just answered my own question as I have been, and want to continue working at the Programme/Portfoilio level rather than the individual Project level

Yep prince covers the big picture, agile covers the nitty gritty detail of things like resource allocation

[SimonMac]

I suspect these days you need both. Agile works well in dynamic environments such as external user facing sites or user acceptance testing but any programme of work has to site inside a defined structure. So use Prince to work out what has to be delivered, when and for how much and then agile to deliver the individual projects within that framework.

You can use Prince all the way down (hence waterfall) although it gets really clumsy on smaller projects, but you can't realistically use agile all the way up.

Incidentally, transition has to work within a set process environment, there are too many risk factors to do otherwise. Agile is NBG for that kind of work

That is what I am seeing, more structured Prince working at the Portfoilio / Programmes level, with Agile Projects delivering it.

Which I think just answered my own question as I have been, and want to continue working at the Programme/Portfoilio level rather than the individual Project level

[vwdan]

Personally I would suggest my forthcoming book on The Panic Methodology. This is designed to reflect the practical management of projects rather than the ideal theory other methodologies favour...

I look forward to the followup - "Making Headless Chickens Look Organised"

[Dallas]

Where i am is Agile - with quarterly deployment scheduled - ha ha ha

Its the future, until you ask the vendors

[malvolio]

I suspect these days you need both. Agile works well in dynamic environments such as external user facing sites or user acceptance testing but any programme of work has to site inside a defined structure. So use Prince to work out what has to be delivered, when and for how much and then agile to deliver the individual projects within that framework.

You can use Prince all the way down (hence waterfall) although it gets really clumsy on smaller projects, but you can't realistically use agile all the way up.

Incidentally, transition has to work within a set process environment, there are too many risk factors to do otherwise. Agile is NBG for that kind of work