Reply to: Nice role but permie, what would you do?

[PerfectStorm]

Very good point. To me this is still a surprise why companies are prepared to pay contractors twice as much money for doing the same job permies do?

I don't know if the figures stack up, but I believe companies employing permenant staff have to lay out about double what the staff member gets anyway.

As well as the usual tax and NI, there's also:

Holiday pay
Sickness
Maternity
Redundancy
Entertainments/Furnishing/events/all the other 'nice' things that make a permanent job somewhere you want to be

In reality they're probably laying out close to a contractor day rate for a lot of people. The small bonus you get is as a reward for taking the above responsibilities away from them.

[MyUserName]

I recently applied for a permanent roles and the HR guy reject my CV because they have a policy of not hiring ex-contractors. I'm only freelancing because its the only thing I can get right now. Also I cut 10 years off the CV - mainly because I can't remember what I doing back then - and he didn't like that either. Plus he wanted to know my grades...something I would think would be completely meaningless after 22 years. I mean you've either got it or you don't. The permanent hiring in the UK really appears to be very ageist and classist right now IMHO.

BTW: I'm broke so any chance you could pass the job details on?

The company I work for is hiring? Depends on whether working in South Hampshire is an issue for you?

[TheFaQQer]

the HR guy reject my CV because they have a policy of not hiring ex-contractors

Are you sure that's the only reason?

[lilelvis2000]

Can't see anyone "converting" a permie role into a contract one and I certainly wouldn't bother trying - sounds like an IR35 nightmare at best.

And is this role literally being offered - as in you've interviewed? Personally I ignore permie roles, but I guess if a nice job came up that paid what I take home now then I could be persuaded - still not sure though - I'd need to know if they do "365 Reviews", first.

If I was desperate then I'd go for it and quit ASAP, thereby perpetuating the belief that contractors are flaky!

I recently applied for a permanent roles and the HR guy reject my CV because they have a policy of not hiring ex-contractors. I'm only freelancing because its the only thing I can get right now. Also I cut 10 years off the CV - mainly because I can't remember what I doing back then - and he didn't like that either. Plus he wanted to know my grades...something I would think would be completely meaningless after 22 years. I mean you've either got it or you don't. The permanent hiring in the UK really appears to be very ageist and classist right now IMHO.

BTW: I'm broke so any chance you could pass the job details on?

[MarillionFan]

If you're MF you take the permie gig no questions asked, then download porn onto the standard issue low spec acer laptop until it breaks.

HTH

The answer is actually 'How much is the permie role worth versus my contracting lifestyle'. In most cases it's not worth it, but some companies offer equity & shares & you have to consider those.

In my case I've gone from a 100K contract to the same on salary, but multiple times that's due to shares & equity. So the answer is yes, sometimes it's better.

The Porn is a always a further bonus.

[TheFaQQer]

Usually because they don't need a permie. If they take a permie on, they're left with the hassle of making them redundant when there's no longer any work to do.

It may not be hassle, but the potential to damage the reputation of the company is significantly greater if they keep hiring people and then making them redundant because the project has ended and they are no longer needed.

[TheFaQQer]

Very good point. To me this is still a surprise why companies are prepared to pay contractors twice as much money for doing the same job permies do?

One of my contracting colleagues went permie with this client, and they aren't saving a great deal by doing that at all. I'm not sure what his day rate was, but I'd guess that he invoiced £125k a year as a contractor and he's on £100k basic plus benefits now as a permie.

If you're in the right kind of role, it's a myth that it costs the client twice as much to get a contractor as it does to get a permie.

[suityou01]

If you like the offered role but it is permie, do you usually try to convince an employer/agent to convert the role into a contract? And if so, how frequently it turns out to be successful? If the answer is no, do you still accept the permie role? Or do you walk away and wait on bench for a contract?

If you're MF you take the permie gig no questions asked, then download porn onto the standard issue low spec acer laptop until it breaks.

HTH

[Ltd]

Usually because they don't need a permie. If they take a permie on, they're left with the hassle of making them redundant when there's no longer any work to do.

Please correct me if I am wrong but within first year of employment (actually two - thank you, conservatives) permie cannot go to employment tribunal (well... unless something really wrong like racial/sexual harassment took place). So there is no hassle, employer just needs to pay for notice period while may still require a permie to work through notice. And redundancy notice period can be as short as one week if employed between one month and 2 years.

[NickFitz]

Very good point. To me this is still a surprise why companies are prepared to pay contractors twice as much money for doing the same job permies do?

Usually because they don't need a permie. If they take a permie on, they're left with the hassle of making them redundant when there's no longer any work to do.

[Ltd]

It's asking for twice as much money that'll make it unlikely.

Very good point. To me this is still a surprise why companies are prepared to pay contractors twice as much money for doing the same job permies do?

[tomtomagain]

If you like the offered role but it is permie, do you usually try to convince an employer/agent to convert the role into a contract? And if so, how frequently it turns out to be successful? If the answer is no, do you still accept the permie role? Or do you walk away and wait on bench for a contract?

Is the role more important to you than being a contractor? There's no reason not to become permie if that's what you want to do.

Doesn't stop you becoming a contractor again in the future.

If I interviewed for a permie role then I would have decided that being permie with that company was acceptable to me *before* going to the interview.

[VectraMan]

Can't see anyone "converting" a permie role into a contract one and I certainly wouldn't bother trying - sounds like an IR35 nightmare at best.

Depends what rate you're after. It's asking for twice as much money that'll make it unlikely.

[MyUserName]

If you like the offered role but it is permie, do you usually try to convince an employer/agent to convert the role into a contract? And if so, how frequently it turns out to be successful? If the answer is no, do you still accept the permie role? Or do you walk away and wait on bench for a contract?

I have been contacted about a perm role once when I was contracting. I refused, they phoned back and offered it as a contract. I accepted. They said that there would be an opportunity to join as a perm 6-9 months down the line. I took it anyways and was there for over two years. Probably would have had an awkward time if an IR35 investigation really kicked in though.

[vwdan]

Can't see anyone "converting" a permie role into a contract one and I certainly wouldn't bother trying - sounds like an IR35 nightmare at best.

And is this role literally being offered - as in you've interviewed? Personally I ignore permie roles, but I guess if a nice job came up that paid what I take home now then I could be persuaded - still not sure though - I'd need to know if they do "365 Reviews", first.

If I was desperate then I'd go for it and quit ASAP, thereby perpetuating the belief that contractors are flaky!