Reply to: When PWD doesnt look so good!

[unixman]

Nothing IR35 unfriendly about covering certain hours, as long as it is written into the contract explicitly. On the other hand, elastic terms like "professional working day" might be have IR35 connotations, so should not appear in a contract or negotiations unless clearly defined.

[psychocandy]

Total and utter IR35 fail in that one post.

I provide my services and ensure things are delivered on time.... Beyond that if someone decided to tell me when I can and can't be in the officer they would find themselves trying to get another contractor up to speed once they found one..

Doesnt always work like this in a support environment. Agree there are elements of IR35 unfriendliness with this but Im sure Im not the only one.

With project work, hours worked can be irrelevant. With support, it can be an issue to provide cover. Yes, in a way you're acting like a permie I agree but, and I'm sure we've discussed this many times, client just wants someone to do the job.

If they want you to cover certain hours then so be it. If you're gonna moan IR35 then they'll just get someone else who will do this.

[tractor]

I do yes. And in the past have walked out from one interview when they answered those questions with "we expect contractors in by 8am latest and to stay here till 6pm at least".

And yes during this interview, shift coverage was mentioned (but I've not been asked to do this yet) as were support hours etc. They also mentioned, as most do, that things need to be fixed regardless.

But I guess it depends what environment you work in. Surely in a support environment, then its taken as read that it all goes belly up then you can't run for the door? Surely this is what PWD means?

What I do sometimes have an issue with is when Im expected to work late due to piss poor planning. Fair enough now and again, but if it keeps happening I will expect an offer of TOIL at the very least. PWD in my eyes means, work extra occasionally, when things out of the ordinary happen not screw extra hours out of me because you can get it for free.

But this is the negative side of PWD IMHO. There are some clients who will say, tell you what book 1.5 for today, others will say, tell you what feel free to go home lunchtime this friday, then there are some who will say nothing and expect you in next day same time and thats the end of it. Unfortunately, contractually theres bugger all you can do.

Current client is pretty good. In the past they've offered to let me go early as appreciation for some extra work so we'll see this time.
Then again, int he past I've had clients where I've worked late for 2/3 nights in a row and then they've moaned when I said I'll be in at 11 cos I've got a dentist appt. This is not on IMHO.

There is only one relevant sentence in that post. I have helped by highlighting it for you.

If that is the case, can you not wait until they actually do something bad before whining about it?

[PerfectStorm]

Be the change that you seek. The worst thing that can happen is that they call your bluff, but more likely you'll be calling theirs.

[NickFitz]

do they have any problems with you getting in at lunchtime and leaving from say, 4pm

FTFY

[SimonMac]

Reminds me of the Simoco interview where they wanted "commitment" from contractors.

I commit to turning up everyday as long as you commit to pay me to terms

[psychocandy]

I don't believe this crap for one second. It needs a snap decision to be made to get up and walk out. Not your strong point that....

Ha ha. In this instance my natural instincts to do no work if possible took over quickly!

There was other stuff in the interview that was off before this. This was last straw.

[northernladuk]

I know about client management, I moved up to North Wales and negotiated home working as my commute was going unmanageable.

Life is tough sometimes

Breathing is tough for the OP.

[northernladuk]

I do yes. And in the past have walked out from one interview when they answered those questions with "we expect contractors in by 8am latest and to stay here till 6pm at least"..

I don't believe this crap for one second. It needs a snap decision to be made to get up and walk out. Not your strong point that....

[stek]

Total and utter IR35 fail in that one post.

I provide my services and ensure things are delivered on time.... Beyond that if someone decided to tell me when I can and can't be in the officer they would find themselves trying to get another contractor up to speed once they found one..

Does he do a reach-round?

[eek]

offered to let me go early

Total and utter IR35 fail in that one post.

I provide my services and ensure things are delivered on time.... Beyond that if someone decided to tell me when I can and can't be in the officer they would find themselves trying to get another contractor up to speed once they found one..

[GlenW]

Prince William of Denmark surely

Psychocandy Whinging Dick

[MicrosoftBob]

pwd is 'print working directory' isn't it?

Prince William of Denmark surely

[stek]

pwd is 'print working directory' isn't it?

[psychocandy]

Seriously, at the end of an interview when they ask if you have any questions, do you not ask;

what's the work culture like
what are the core times
do they have any problems with you getting in early and leaving from say, 4pm

Of course they are different ways of asking these questions. Its all about getting information you need to make a decision whether the job is one you are prepared to take on. IMO, half the 'problems' with hours of attendance, is that people dont ask about these at interview then complain when they cannot come and go as frequently as they think they should be able to.

I do yes. And in the past have walked out from one interview when they answered those questions with "we expect contractors in by 8am latest and to stay here till 6pm at least".

And yes during this interview, shift coverage was mentioned (but I've not been asked to do this yet) as were support hours etc. They also mentioned, as most do, that things need to be fixed regardless.

But I guess it depends what environment you work in. Surely in a support environment, then its taken as read that it all goes belly up then you can't run for the door? Surely this is what PWD means?

What I do sometimes have an issue with is when Im expected to work late due to piss poor planning. Fair enough now and again, but if it keeps happening I will expect an offer of TOIL at the very least. PWD in my eyes means, work extra occasionally, when things out of the ordinary happen not screw extra hours out of me because you can get it for free.

But this is the negative side of PWD IMHO. There are some clients who will say, tell you what book 1.5 for today, others will say, tell you what feel free to go home lunchtime this friday, then there are some who will say nothing and expect you in next day same time and thats the end of it. Unfortunately, contractually theres bugger all you can do.

Current client is pretty good. In the past they've offered to let me go early as appreciation for some extra work so we'll see this time.
Then again, int he past I've had clients where I've worked late for 2/3 nights in a row and then they've moaned when I said I'll be in at 11 cos I've got a dentist appt. This is not on IMHO.