Reply to: Not on Payroll mean no support?

[andydd68]

Jamie - I'm in your camp. I have worked all my life and have never taken a single pound from the welfare state. I have paid all my taxes happily and encourage my kids to do the same, because that was the right thing to do. I have been out of contract for several months, but managed to secure a contract in early March. Needless to say, the Client put a hold on all onboarding due to the current virus pandemic. As someone who is old enough to know better, I should have saved more money for times like this - but some how life got in the way. I have paid at least 30% tax on any turnover for the many years, while big Business pays less than 1% - yet I am told i am not entitled to anything form the UK government now. Thank god for credit cards - shame on me.

Whay are you not entitled to anything ?

Self Employed Scvheme ?.. No because you operate via PAYE
UC ? - savings above 16K ?
CJRS - Furlough yourself ?

[andydd68]

How far back would you propose people can go? If someone lost a contract at the end of last year, and has been unable to get a contract since (perhaps due to IR35) would you advocate they can start claiming CJRS from the start of March?

Its probably within the written rules, but I doubt is what the scheme was meant for. What if they've since started another permanent or Umbrella role but were still paying themselves PAYE? Should they also be allowed to claim? I can't see the rules disallowing that either.

People can (and will) do what they feel is the right thing for them. The lines we chose to cross are in different places.

Youve answered the question yourself

[Paralytic]

Jamie - I'm in your camp. I have worked all my life and have never taken a single pound from the welfare state. I have paid all my taxes happily and encourage my kids to do the same, because that was the right thing to do. I have been out of contract for several months, but managed to secure a contract in early March. Needless to say, the Client put a hold on all onboarding due to the current virus pandemic. As someone who is old enough to know better, I should have saved more money for times like this - but some how life got in the way. I have paid at least 30% tax on any turnover for the many years, while big Business pays less than 1% - yet I am told i am not entitled to anything form the UK government now. Thank god for credit cards - shame on me.

Universal Credit?

[Johngerald]

I agree

Hi that is correct, I have had contracts put on hold due to Covid and not able to land a new one.

Jamie - I'm in your camp. I have worked all my life and have never taken a single pound from the welfare state. I have paid all my taxes happily and encourage my kids to do the same, because that was the right thing to do. I have been out of contract for several months, but managed to secure a contract in early March. Needless to say, the Client put a hold on all onboarding due to the current virus pandemic. As someone who is old enough to know better, I should have saved more money for times like this - but some how life got in the way. I have paid at least 30% tax on any turnover for the many years, while big Business pays less than 1% - yet I am told i am not entitled to anything form the UK government now. Thank god for credit cards - shame on me.

[JamieB101]

You've said this on a couple of threads now and it's totally incorrect. Here is the guidance:

Check if you can claim for your employees' wages through the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme - GOV.UK

If you cannot maintain your current workforce because your operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19), you can furlough employees and apply for a grant that covers 80% of their usual monthly wage...

So, if the poster can't land a new contract because the market has been severely impacted by the pandemic then he is well within his rights to furlough himself from his company and claim on the scheme.

Hi that is correct, I have had contracts put on hold due to Covid and not able to land a new one.

[PerfectStorm]

Exactly. For once we have the government saying fill your boots and we have contractors habitually tying themselves up in theory

[jamed]

I read it. And, as I said, its up to each individual to determine whether their current (non-working) situation is due to Covid or whether they would have been in that situation anyway (eg, due to IR35). HMRC are unlikely to ask and would never know anyway.

It is clearly open to abuse.

Well you are legally entitled to claim it. Doesn't make sense to be "kind" to HMRC and forfeit this just because you feel it's morally not right. We're all getting screwed in the future with IR35 so receiving 600 a month now is really nothing compared to the additional lost income thanks to the government wanting to tax us more.

"This is a temporary scheme in place for 4 months starting from 1 March 2020, but it may be extended if necessary and employers can use this scheme anytime during this period. It is designed to help employers whose operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19) to retain their employees and protect the UK economy. However, all employers are eligible to claim under the scheme and the government recognises different businesses will face different impacts from coronavirus."

[oliverson]

I read it. And, as I said, its up to each individual to determine whether their current (non-working) situation is due to Covid or whether they would have been in that situation anyway (eg, due to IR35). HMRC are unlikely to ask and would never know anyway.

It is clearly open to abuse.

You could argue had it not been for IR35, that person wouldn't have made the decision to leave their client at the end of December (or had been terminated) and may or may not have been impacted by coronavirus at all. We'll never know, but through no action of their own, that person may well be in need of the financial support this package offers. You can't criticise them for taking it.

[Paralytic]

I'll re-paste the line again in case you missed it:

If you cannot maintain your current workforce because your operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19), you can furlough employees and apply for a grant that covers 80% of their usual monthly wage...

I read it. And, as I said, its up to each individual to determine whether their current (non-working) situation is due to Covid or whether they would have been in that situation anyway (eg, due to IR35). HMRC are unlikely to ask and would never know anyway.

It is clearly open to abuse.

[oliverson]

How far back would you propose people can go? If someone lost a contract at the end of last year, and has been unable to get a contract since (perhaps due to IR35) would you advocate they can start claiming CJRS from the start of March?

Its probably within the written rules, but I doubt is what the scheme was meant for. What if they've since started another permanent or Umbrella role but were still paying themselves PAYE? Should they also be allowed to claim? I can't see the rules disallowing that either.

People can (and will) do what they feel is the right thing for them. The lines we chose to cross are in different places.

I'll re-paste the line again in case you missed it:

If you cannot maintain your current workforce because your operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19), you can furlough employees and apply for a grant that covers 80% of their usual monthly wage...

[Paralytic]

You've said this on a couple of threads now and it's totally incorrect. Here is the guidance:

Check if you can claim for your employees' wages through the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme - GOV.UK

If you cannot maintain your current workforce because your operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19), you can furlough employees and apply for a grant that covers 80% of their usual monthly wage...

So, if the poster can't land a new contract because the market has been severely impacted by the pandemic then he is well within his rights to furlough himself from his company and claim on the scheme.

How far back would you propose people can go? If someone lost a contract at the end of last year, and has been unable to get a contract since (perhaps due to IR35) would you advocate they can start claiming CJRS from the start of March?

Its probably within the written rules, but I doubt is what the scheme was meant for. What if they've since started another permanent or Umbrella role but were still paying themselves PAYE? Should they also be allowed to claim? I can't see the rules disallowing that either.

People can (and will) do what they feel is the right thing for them. The lines we chose to cross are in different places.

[oliverson]

If you were not working on a contract, what did impact did Covid have that means you now believe you're eligible for the job retention scheme?

If you had no job, there was therefore no job to retain.

You've said this on a couple of threads now and it's totally incorrect. Here is the guidance:

Check if you can claim for your employees' wages through the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme - GOV.UK

If you cannot maintain your current workforce because your operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19), you can furlough employees and apply for a grant that covers 80% of their usual monthly wage...

So, if the poster can't land a new contract because the market has been severely impacted by the pandemic then he is well within his rights to furlough himself from his company and claim on the scheme.

[Paralytic]

If you were not working on a contract, what did impact did Covid have that means you now believe you're eligible for the job retention scheme?

If you had no job, there was therefore no job to retain.

[ladymuck]

Sadly it seems like you thought an accountant was just for Christmas.

Essentially, if you weren't operating a PAYE scheme then you can't claim anything from the CJRS. You will have to look at Cibils, which is looking like no bank will lend if your business isn't deemed viable, or universal credit if you need money coming in while you look for work.

[NotAllThere]

I think you should ask your accountant.