Not on Payroll mean no support?

[JamieB101]

HI

I am a LTD company director and had severed relations with my previous accountant as i was not working on a contract.I subsequently asked him to complete accounts on an ad hoc basis and stopped the monthly payment to him.
I asked him today about the portal that opened up and he told me that as the fees stopped he had stopped doing the payroll returns since sometime in 2018.
Am i right in thinking that i am not eligible for any help through the Furlough Scheme as i was not registered on a payroll scheme? and that the only help is potentially through a business interruption loan.

Many thanks in advance

[NotAllThere]

I think you should ask your accountant.

[ladymuck]

Sadly it seems like you thought an accountant was just for Christmas.

Essentially, if you weren't operating a PAYE scheme then you can't claim anything from the CJRS. You will have to look at Cibils, which is looking like no bank will lend if your business isn't deemed viable, or universal credit if you need money coming in while you look for work.

[Paralytic]

If you were not working on a contract, what did impact did Covid have that means you now believe you're eligible for the job retention scheme?

If you had no job, there was therefore no job to retain.

[oliverson]

If you were not working on a contract, what did impact did Covid have that means you now believe you're eligible for the job retention scheme?

If you had no job, there was therefore no job to retain.

You've said this on a couple of threads now and it's totally incorrect. Here is the guidance:

Check if you can claim for your employees' wages through the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme - GOV.UK

If you cannot maintain your current workforce because your operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19), you can furlough employees and apply for a grant that covers 80% of their usual monthly wage...

So, if the poster can't land a new contract because the market has been severely impacted by the pandemic then he is well within his rights to furlough himself from his company and claim on the scheme.

[Paralytic]

You've said this on a couple of threads now and it's totally incorrect. Here is the guidance:

Check if you can claim for your employees' wages through the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme - GOV.UK

If you cannot maintain your current workforce because your operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19), you can furlough employees and apply for a grant that covers 80% of their usual monthly wage...

So, if the poster can't land a new contract because the market has been severely impacted by the pandemic then he is well within his rights to furlough himself from his company and claim on the scheme.

How far back would you propose people can go? If someone lost a contract at the end of last year, and has been unable to get a contract since (perhaps due to IR35) would you advocate they can start claiming CJRS from the start of March?

Its probably within the written rules, but I doubt is what the scheme was meant for. What if they've since started another permanent or Umbrella role but were still paying themselves PAYE? Should they also be allowed to claim? I can't see the rules disallowing that either.

People can (and will) do what they feel is the right thing for them. The lines we chose to cross are in different places.

[oliverson]

How far back would you propose people can go? If someone lost a contract at the end of last year, and has been unable to get a contract since (perhaps due to IR35) would you advocate they can start claiming CJRS from the start of March?

Its probably within the written rules, but I doubt is what the scheme was meant for. What if they've since started another permanent or Umbrella role but were still paying themselves PAYE? Should they also be allowed to claim? I can't see the rules disallowing that either.

People can (and will) do what they feel is the right thing for them. The lines we chose to cross are in different places.

I'll re-paste the line again in case you missed it:

If you cannot maintain your current workforce because your operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19), you can furlough employees and apply for a grant that covers 80% of their usual monthly wage...

[Paralytic]

I'll re-paste the line again in case you missed it:

If you cannot maintain your current workforce because your operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19), you can furlough employees and apply for a grant that covers 80% of their usual monthly wage...

I read it. And, as I said, its up to each individual to determine whether their current (non-working) situation is due to Covid or whether they would have been in that situation anyway (eg, due to IR35). HMRC are unlikely to ask and would never know anyway.

It is clearly open to abuse.

[oliverson]

I read it. And, as I said, its up to each individual to determine whether their current (non-working) situation is due to Covid or whether they would have been in that situation anyway (eg, due to IR35). HMRC are unlikely to ask and would never know anyway.

It is clearly open to abuse.

You could argue had it not been for IR35, that person wouldn't have made the decision to leave their client at the end of December (or had been terminated) and may or may not have been impacted by coronavirus at all. We'll never know, but through no action of their own, that person may well be in need of the financial support this package offers. You can't criticise them for taking it.

[jamed]

I read it. And, as I said, its up to each individual to determine whether their current (non-working) situation is due to Covid or whether they would have been in that situation anyway (eg, due to IR35). HMRC are unlikely to ask and would never know anyway.

It is clearly open to abuse.

Well you are legally entitled to claim it. Doesn't make sense to be "kind" to HMRC and forfeit this just because you feel it's morally not right. We're all getting screwed in the future with IR35 so receiving 600 a month now is really nothing compared to the additional lost income thanks to the government wanting to tax us more.

"This is a temporary scheme in place for 4 months starting from 1 March 2020, but it may be extended if necessary and employers can use this scheme anytime during this period. It is designed to help employers whose operations have been severely affected by coronavirus (COVID-19) to retain their employees and protect the UK economy. However, all employers are eligible to claim under the scheme and the government recognises different businesses will face different impacts from coronavirus."