Reply to: 5 days into contract, rate cut!

[speling bee]

Bank and Public Sector are sheep with this. One goes, the others then follow.

Some good advice earlier in the thread - with these sectors, revenge is a dish best served by adding on 10% next time.

Why wouldn't you add the 10% anyway if you can get away with it?

[northernladuk]

I agree - so the only time they should be allowed to do it as at the end of a contract (ie the same time we can ask for a rate increase). Its a sham that they get away with it but as so many just bend over and take it, it will continue to happen. If everyone just walked they'd change their mind. But people lose their bottle as they think they wont find other contracts (or get black balled)

It's not about losing their bottle. It's about making a business decision based on the current circumstances.

[Underscore Pt2]

But they do. Maybe not a cut out of the blue or a change midway through but a lot of clients push for a year on year reduction in the cost of the service from big companies like this. I know my last clients did and the year on year target was more than 10% so they do push the big guys for cuts, even more regularly than contractors.

I agree - so the only time they should be allowed to do it as at the end of a contract (ie the same time we can ask for a rate increase). Its a sham that they get away with it but as so many just bend over and take it, it will continue to happen. If everyone just walked they'd change their mind. But people lose their bottle as they think they wont find other contracts (or get black balled)

[7specialgems]

Bank and Public Sector are sheep with this. One goes, the others then follow.

Some good advice earlier in the thread - with these sectors, revenge is a dish best served by adding on 10% next time.

[DaveB]

But they do. Maybe not a cut out of the blue or a change midway through but a lot of clients push for a year on year reduction in the cost of the service from big companies like this. I know my last clients did and the year on year target was more than 10% so they do push the big guys for cuts, even more regularly than contractors.

Indeed. This is why big supplier companies front load their costs into a contract, because they know they are going to be asked to reduce them in the future. They need to make sure they get a return on the contract that covers setup and development in the first 2 years because their margins will be cut every year after that. It's a balancing act for them in terms of making money on the contract and keeping the customer happy so they don't go elsewhere in search of a better deal.

[northernladuk]

The problem is so many contactors dont think like businesses otherwise Banks etc wouldnt get away with this... do you think they change IBMs or Accentures contract mid way through??

But they do. Maybe not a cut out of the blue or a change midway through but a lot of clients push for a year on year reduction in the cost of the service from big companies like this. I know my last clients did and the year on year target was more than 10% so they do push the big guys for cuts, even more regularly than contractors.

[Underscore Pt2]

As a contractor you are a business, so try and think like a business and keep emotion to a minimum. Simple question can your business get a better deal elsewhere in a short period of time? If yes, then walk, if no then suck it up and stay. Simples

The problem is so many contactors dont think like businesses otherwise Banks etc wouldnt get away with this... do you think they change IBMs or Accentures contract mid way through??

[sirja]

As a contractor you are a business, so try and think like a business and keep emotion to a minimum. Simple question can your business get a better deal elsewhere in a short period of time? If yes, then walk, if no then suck it up and stay. Simples

[BlasterBates]

In a bank the PM's are constantly trying to make their team bigger, and the only thing that stops an inevitable growth to an infinitely big team is a spending cap or a budget cut.

Think of it like having to hoover up from time to time.

[sal]

I suspect the blanket cut is not actually a blanket and that managers concerns will be listened to - but a blanket rate cut seems like such a draconian and counter productive action (from a morale perspective at the very least!) that it has me wondering.

One word - Beancounters

[wonderboy]

If you can't be replaced, then why would you consider taking a rate cut?

Everyone can be replaced. That's not news.

The question is, do senior management in large banks take any notice when middle management reports that hiring developers with a specific skill for a strategic project is tough and losing team members to a blanket 10% rate cut is even tougher?

Is senior management typically so far removed from the day to day activities of an organisation that it is futile to attempt any kind of negotiation?

I suspect the blanket cut is not actually a blanket and that managers concerns will be listened to - but a blanket rate cut seems like such a draconian and counter productive action (from a morale perspective at the very least!) that it has me wondering.

[TheFaQQer]

I meant the opposite. Solid JavaScript developers are like hens' teeth. Sure, everyone thinks they know Javascript, but that doesn't make it true. And more JavaScript is being used in more companies in more complex ways, making for strong demand.

If you can't be replaced, then why would you consider taking a rate cut?

[wonderboy]

Therein lies the rub. Particularly this early in the contract, there's plenty of other people they could find who would take that 10% cut (and maybe still find themselves vulnerable to another cut soon).

I meant the opposite. Solid JavaScript developers are like hens' teeth. Sure, everyone thinks they know Javascript, but that doesn't make it true. And more JavaScript is being used in more companies in more complex ways, making for strong demand.

[Bunk]

Maybe you're right and I read it wrong. I can't believe that there are more JavaScript roles than there are developers - I thought every computer science course in the world was churning them out these days.

True, but there are a lot of JS roles out there at the moment, and it's an area where skill level varies immensely.

[TheFaQQer]

I read this completely differently. Demand should be demand by the client, and supply the supply of services. But I expect you're right and the OP means that demand for gigs outstrips supply of gigs. Funny way of looking at it.

Maybe you're right and I read it wrong. I can't believe that there are more JavaScript roles than there are developers - I thought every computer science course in the world was churning them out these days.