Reply to: Good books/tips on management

[Umbongoo]

Seems it's experience you're lacking, but you can only get this thru getting more experience and learning as you go. Seems you're doing this as we speak. B good to know how this pans out for u.

[northernrampage]

thank you Northernladuk and Malvolio, it's been a v. useful thread for me.

It's definitely the areas around conflict I find hard, so I'll look into that. Along with keeping up team motivation and being more responsible for the members of it, can't just ignore the issues any longer. The person who works for me does have some strengths, so I'll recognise those while working on the other areas (and my management skills!).

[malvolio]

Which is all solid information and should be heeded. Except most (but not all) of the team literature is about building teams and motivating them, focusing on getting the right personality and skills mix, not patching broken ones. Be sure you're aware of the differences.

However I stick to the "I want this by then please", followed by "Let's examine why you didn't manage it" followed by "How are we going to do it better next time" approach. And note the use of "we" - your team is your responsibility.

[northernladuk]

Think it is my turn to have a pop at this one. I would have responded to BrianP but it appears he was one of pacharans sockies so has had his marching orders so can ignore anything he said.

Oh... and Northernrampage I think you will find is not a he.. but moving on...

I've sat on the fence on this one. My initial thoughts are that there are only one type of manager that is worse than a bad one/inexperienced and that is one that manages from a book, quoting theory and trying to apply it without fully understanding the situation and outcome....

That said, you have to start somewhere but to me, to manage properly is a career, not a side skill. Unfortunately the whole thing of getting good at what you do so you move in to management is flawed as explained by the Peter Principle which says

The Peter Principle states that "in a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence", meaning that employees tend to be promoted until they reach a position in which they cannot work competently.

I cannot give NR advice as I don't think a general book will not help your situation one iota. The only thing that will is to read up, continually work at the skills, fail at this and learn from it and then become a skilled manager in a few years. You cannot learn motivation, self perpetualisation and empowerment from a book. It is a thinking style.

In the short term what I would advise you do is think about where you are having a problem and research that, NOT take a stab at the whole thing.

If you are struggling with conflict look for Thomas and Kilmann's 5 styles of dealing with conflict, if it is changing the research Pugh's Principles of Change and so on. That will give you a framework and ideas of how to approach your situation.

You could think about Belbin's team roles and see if you can identify this guys strengths and work on them.

Also if it is motivation look at Frederick Herzberg's motivation and hygiene factors. Not everyone wants to be micro managed and will work better hands off, not everyone wants to be given a list of tasks, they will work better if they own a solution, not everyone like being given tasks so ask him what he thinks, guide him to come up with the idea of the task you want him to do and then let him run with it as if it was his idea and so on.

[malvolio]

It's quite clear to anyone with a modicum of common sense, and any degree of management ability, that the OP is clearly out of his depth, as I suspect you might be, based on your level of supportive comment.

Which I'm afraid speaks volumes for your management skills.

The naivety of the original post really should send a message to the OP that he/she is out of their depths for the role which they find themselves in, and frankly should be embarrassed at having to ask this type of question in a public forum. Your support of it says it all.

My original response to the effect that the OP is neither suited to staff recruitment nor staff management, stands, but this is just 'mho' based on what I've read on here, of course.

To precis, "Walk away, you're not good enough." Brilliant advice. Useless, but brilliant. Wish I'd thought of it.

[BrianP]

I'm putting you on ignore, so I don't see your advice again.

Good call.

[northernrampage]

Oh believe me, it was meant as contstructive (sic) advice. Just 'cos you didn't like it doesn't mean it wasn't constructive...maybe you shouldn't have asked in the 1st instance?

I didn't "like" a lot of the advice. But it was constructive, mainly fair, and basically made me realise what I need to do.

Which is why I posted. If I wanted a pat on the head I'd have gone to another board. On here, most people do give good advice, might not always be palatable, but generally valid and forthright with it. So I don't regret asking as I know what to do next. The anonymous negative rep comment I've received from someone and your advice didn't help me make that decision.

I'm putting you on ignore, so I don't see your advice again.

[BrianP]

Well BriP, thanks for your pearls of wisdom, thanks for sharing; I’m sure someone will find value in them, but I'll try and avoid descending to your depths.

I have more than sufficient management capability & experience (& qualifications if you want to get into the playground situation) thank you, & in many environments, but (back to the point) to respond with guidance or support to someone who asks 'is there a book' or 'does anyone have any tips', would be, frankly, futile and the very nature of the request in itself was ridiculous & naive, if only you could see it.

It's quite clear to anyone with a modicum of common sense, and any degree of management ability, that the OP is clearly out of his depth, as I suspect you might be, based on your level of supportive comment.

The naivety of the original post really should send a message to the OP that he/she is out of their depths for the role which they find themselves in, and frankly should be embarrassed at having to ask this type of question in a public forum. Your support of it says it all.

My original response to the effect that the OP is neither suited to staff recruitment nor staff management, stands, but this is just 'mho' based on what I've read on here, of course.

Have a word with Mal.

If you can't understand my posts, have a word with yourself...

[SteelyDan]

Seriously, managing people - perms, (contractors generally manage themselves) is very draining, I've tried. Ignore knobbers like "Steely Dan" who probably have no experience in the field

Well BriP, thanks for your pearls of wisdom, thanks for sharing; I’m sure someone will find value in them, but I'll try and avoid descending to your depths.

I have more than sufficient management capability & experience (& qualifications if you want to get into the playground situation) thank you, & in many environments, but (back to the point) to respond with guidance or support to someone who asks 'is there a book' or 'does anyone have any tips', would be, frankly, futile and the very nature of the request in itself was ridiculous & naive, if only you could see it.

It's quite clear to anyone with a modicum of common sense, and any degree of management ability, that the OP is clearly out of his depth, as I suspect you might be, based on your level of supportive comment.

The naivety of the original post really should send a message to the OP that he/she is out of their depths for the role which they find themselves in, and frankly should be embarrassed at having to ask this type of question in a public forum. Your support of it says it all.

My original response to the effect that the OP is neither suited to staff recruitment nor staff management, stands, but this is just 'mho' based on what I've read on here, of course.

[BrianP]

Did he say there is PCG+ will help deal with permies?

I'm still in contract at the moment and making the move, probably next month, as discussed on another thread. Also I have the option to extend - do you know this term? Probably not with your attitude.

HTH.

[minstrel]

A lot of the comments here are definitely not constructive.

It's a perfectly reasonable situation to debate. It's possibly the "is there a book" way the question was phrased that stirred people.

Anyway, I agree with you that it's a difficult situation and you can spend years working with good teams and not have to deal with poor performers.

I've come across this twice while contracting. Once I was "given" a new contractor who was 5 times slower than they should have been. Brought it up with permie management, who brought in HR and there was a quick meeting with HR and they were escorted out of the building. This all happened within the first couple of weeks of their contract.

Second time it was a permie who I was also "given" without being involved in selection. Raised it with management and it went through several months of performance management where I was involved in setting tasks and reporting back performance. The individual left the business by mutual agreement with a payoff at the end of the process.

My advice would be to deal with the situation as quickly as possible. In my experience, whenever there has not been a "fit" on a project, they have always ended up leaving, so the sooner the better.

[northernladuk]

Seriously, managing people - perms, (contractors generally manage themselves) is very draining, I've tried. Ignore knobbers like "Steely Dan" who probably have no experience in the field and listen to Mal.

Bri.

Did he say there is PCG+ will help deal with permies?

[BrianP]

Yup, could be the issue. I'll have a think about it.

Thanks all for advice, I'll take them aside to discuss and take it from there.

Seriously, managing people - perms, (contractors generally manage themselves) is very draining, I've tried. Ignore knobbers like "Steely Dan" who probably have no experience in the field and listen to Mal.

Bri.

[SteelyDan]

If you've nothing contstructive to add..

Oh believe me, it was meant as contstructive (sic) advice. Just 'cos you didn't like it doesn't mean it wasn't constructive...maybe you shouldn't have asked in the 1st instance?

[northernrampage]

Absolutely. If you can't tell people they are not doing things right, and give them a timed target to aim for to improve, then you aren't doing your job. Agreed that it is a hard thing to do, but it is an absolute given that you have to be able to deal with these situations.

However, that said, one word of caution. I've done the interim manager thing a few times, leading teams of up to 70 people. As a contractor (even one on a FTC) I am more than happy to provide guidance, set objectives and define deliverables, and even review where people are. What I will never do, and always ensure my client knows it, is anything that affects a permie's career. If they need smacking, that's for HR or the next permie up the tree from you. You are not paid nor insured to be responsible for the client's staff, only what they deliver.

Cheers for advice. I'm responsible for dealing with whether they stay or go which I don't feel that comfortable with as I'm not here for much longer (unless I choose to become perm, which won't happen).

It's the first time I've taken someone else's advice on a hire which I now regret. Lesson learnt.

I'll do some setting targets and be open with the member of staff then discuss with my permanent bosses.